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VALENTINE's DAY & Shiv Sena's protest : Bullshit..!!!

Page no : 2

(Guest)

Goodboy.50

Sorry I should have marked the message to Sajid instead of leaving it blank. My first views were for author of this post. Thanks for your subsequent views too.

Coming to your rebuttals on my views kindly read and I self quote from my last post "However I'm not aligned to Shiv Sena's thoughts and not a supporter herein"

1. If u quote HJR temples depiction of Kamasutra and say it is OK bze “liberties” there granted by COI I agree to it. What I disagree is that in a park two un wed couples do a “Kamasutra scene openly” mind the difference here and no one should object to it because they are (1) - Adults (2) They are consenting and (3) It comes under liberties. Now how does that sound for time being leaving aside self edited Wiki and non-authenticated Hindu practices of ages quoting for debate per se in any “society”?
Illustration: MF Hussan case u n we all know why he is banned from this Country? I only ask u now will a Muslim depict Allah into any other form and Arabic country tolerate it in the name of “expressions of an artist / freedom of expression”. Here I am not talking of Taliban countries. They are recent genesis. Flip here, scene two, have u ever seen Jesus depicted into any other form like Draupadi has been, why ? Neither Draupadi is worshipped in
India nor she is in any of the temples but culture down memory lane swears by her. I am not fan of epics and neither know which philosopher down ages has actual written these. But to me it is ultimate form of “liberties” Why ban such depictions ! The mute point here is how far one can extend “liberties” and not that Valentine is OK or not Ok.



2. In my first reply I also said such hooligans are not justified but it happened why one should pay attention to such acts to further fuel them ! It happened because above 1 and 2 read with 3 went to extremes by both sides, read the evolving history of Valentine protest by Shiv Sena like how it started, first. it started with Chowpatty, Colaba  and Juhu bandstand areas where un wed adults started indulging openly in public display of “immoral acts” in the name of  “Today is Valentine's Day” mind it, it was not confined to exchange of gifts / love and affection but it went further in several “public places”. Then it became a “public nonsense” across board and so on so forth then these Saniks started showing “hard means” which in my view once again I say is not justified like taking law into once hands. Now I once again say Saniks acts are un -constitutional and agree to all that you say but did anyone file a PIL till date to set the clock straight instead of saying all these comes under "liberties" is my only point here.  


3. Kushboo was straight faced and went ahead to set the clock straight in live in where SC rightly said, there is no Law to ban live in. Before Kushboo’s statement lots of adults were indulging into live in which society means neighbors frowned upon bze they have adult daughters and adult sons at home least they also start the same and then huge rakish was created with Kushboo’s statement and ultimately SC said rightly what it has to say, so now it is Art. 141 matter is it not so ? Now probably no one can point anything about live in or need may come down in future to create a specific Law for that. Now my question to you here is was 2 adults having live in not their liberties, yes it is so why society objected to it there was protests but South being South, Shiv Sena style extreme things did not happen much, except at few places by local moral police brigades and media postings / debates of the same but it for the time being has died natural death !.


4. Regarding all your other liberties related protests like Khaps / unsociability / sati/ female feticides / PGD’s, I say I disagree only to “their methods” (killings / out casting / gender selection etc. etc.) but my question here is will you as a individual follow these within your home if something like this happens in day today life and you are asked to make a choice?
Illustration: It is too personal mind it but take it just as a very crude illustration. I don’t know your age nor marital status suppose your adult daughter becomes pregnant without weding by her boyfriend, so, first will you question her or not and second is it not her “liberties” and lastly is there any law for un married pregnancies of a adult lady ! So how a society in general leaving aside culture, traditions blah blah should take such liberties?


5. Both authors as well as your points of view are just too good and “liberties” granted by COI does exists but the mute question here is how far both parties (Valentine couples and Shiv Saniks brigade can be allowed to go) in the name of “liberties”?



Now I have another question for you: Tell me why Art. 142 COI is highly criticized since inception till date and it will be criticized till eternity? Have not all Hon’ble Judges before being appointed read and understood its true spirits  ? Why there are several opinions on same matter by different Bench ? Have they do not know Law as you question on liberties which everyone knows but there are different views and usage?


COI has granted certain “liberties” but these quoted things by main Author and you, me and several others will be happening because of “ignorance of same Law” by “commonest person” in poverty ridden country like
India
. Resolve to educate the “grass root” first then eradicate poverty then let us do arm chair rebuttals showing our so called Wiki intellect otherwise these debates for and against will remain contentious.


Don’t worry at the end I will still say I am with you two and several others on liberties point of view but 100% education is not around in a traditional, cultural blah blah society such as India that is why such questions arise when ……………..

Rgds.  

Sajid Sheikh (Student)     10 July 2010

Firstly I will like to comment on Dr Arun's reply...my previous post was out of curiousity on what was told to me by a friend of mine...The story he told me was what I posted without any clear facts....Moreover recently It came to my notice that what happened was not a result of neighbour's complaint but their friend's revenge who informed police about this...Lets be on this post....

  1. Whenever we argue on liberty I do not understand why people focus on extreme liberty. Liberty always comes with a social sesponsibility , which I also agree. In your next reply there we can find an illustration of liberty as you talked of " having s*x openly as against society...and within walls as a right...keeping in mind certain rules.

  2. Secondly u quoted " Yes, such "methodology" are not right way to go about it but you questioned it so I love to hear your suggestion on teen pregnancies, rising condom sales....." which I would like to answer....teen pregnancies or unmarried pregnancies may be due to rise of west culture....But Just for case if we go deeply in this matter (i dont mean to study its past or present senario but just think deep) we will certainly come to a conclusion that god have given BRAINS to everyone to think rationally....If a person wants to have s*x have it but use a contraceptive ...use condom...If in any case comes to me of  an unmarried girl pregnant , I will firstly slap her and will ask her where was hes mind when she had s*x unprotected without realising that she was not ready for a baby .Secondly it may be becoz of lack of s*x education.Thirdly it may be due to fear of our culture ridden society...And here we will realise that west is certainly helping us...Sex education as was criticized by many and Contraceptives are a result of western Impast...Sex may be of two types....With consent and without consent(rape)...If still an unmarried girl gets pregnant the main reason would certainly be lack of use of common sensne and then some how west...Pls note that west just has impact on us but nowhere it calls for unprotected s*x...And rising sales of Condoms....in a way its good....atleast we can hope for protected s*x that way...

  3. Note here what I feel that we dont have any differences of views let it be me , u or goodboy....but we are taking extreme cases of each person\s views.....I we take the moderated outcome then it will be acceptible by all.

  4. As Goodboy in his post has given some primary guidelines for  self styled gaurdians of Hindu culture should adopt true Hindu culture I fully support him. I dont understand why people always blame west but never have thanked West for sharing ita technology etc...thus increasing our pace of progress..

  5. Lastly the question on the methodology of these parties is clear...i.e. they are not justified in using such methodology for supporting their personal religious or ideological motives.

    Regards

Sajid Sheikh


(Guest)

To both of you including me :-)

For Goodboy,

1. We Indians make it a point living in
India that we tend to "preach the very next person" which is sort of National favourite pastime, whereas we don't follow what we preach within deep ourselves. It is harsh fact a Hindu way of life which is very interesting outcome of these 10,000 + words debate as I feel. :-)
Illustration: What Goodboy asked Shiv Sainik's to wear or do, will he /you / me be wearing it / doing it in day-to-day life ! The answer will be big NO but for the sake of internet writing and out of curiosity we all tend to agree to disagree to each others point of view which is stark healthy debate realities.

For Sajid,

Ans. to teen pregnancy if it happened in your or mine home is:
Give three options to a teen; (1 option) Help her Abort - now carry forward with caution in life, (2 option) Help her Marry him - now carry forward in life sharing the baby's responsibilities equally and (3 option) Help her to give birth - now carry forward in life as it is your responsibility.
Slapping as advised by you to your own adult flesh and blood is extreme form (Shiv Sanik's way) of gesture in delicate family relationship ! Now let us re-read the abv. common illustration once again shall we :-)

For me

"Believe within yourself whatwhy and how........."     Amen

Thank you all and now, shall we close this post gentlemen and carry forward with next Hindu way of life.....!

Rgds.

Sajid Sheikh (Student)     10 July 2010

To Dr Arun Kumar...as  quoted by u" Slapping as advised by you to your own adult flesh and blood is extreme form (Shiv Sanik's way) of gesture in delicate family relationship !" Your such comments are due to my less discripttive post.  I would like to add to my previous quote where I said this that, If a such case comes to me depicting herself as a victim of westernisation....then I would use the methodology...In fact I m trying to show my anger to such people who blame west for their follies...

So at last i would paste Dr Aruns lines as .."Believe within yourself whatwhy and how........."

& I would like to add next to Goodboy's quote by Voltaire..."It is difficult to free the fools from the chains they revere.".....But atleast we should keep on trying..

But if someones might read our replies and ask us that " what are we doing to stop such actions of these parties"...then i may not be wrong saying " Atleast we are spreading this message...May be someone may find it useful....but if so do post a thank...

At last I would like to thank everyone who read or replied to this topic and as suggested by Dr Arun Kumar ....Let this topic be closed....I would ike to say may be someone has to say something different....So let it be open till it is hot.

Regards

Sajid Sheikh

Bhartiya No. 1 (Nationalist)     11 July 2010

Mr. Sajid

Have u ever criticized or raised a voice against the fatwa issued by the Muslim org. on Vande Matram , Sania Mirza, Salman Khan, Salman Rushdie and on various other issues? Have u ever resisted and tried to reform the ills and evil present in Muslim culture and society and on their cause of illiteracy?

Have u ever commented on SIMI alike organization engaged in spreading Islamic terrorism and responsible for the several blasts? It is due to these miscreants whole nation is paying the price in the name of security.  We are going thro’ or being harassed in the name security checking everywhere, only due to these types of Muslims.  Muslims have many qualities and have many great personalities, but are being overshadowed/maligned by these types of unsocial Muslims.  Have u ever gone against such type of Muslims and condemned their activity for the sake of Nation on which u proud of? If we will criticize or condemn unsocial or miscreants elements in Muslims, thing will take different turn, so, it your duty.  Instead of that u r behind Shiv Sena that also on the matter of “Valentine Day”. Does this belong to Hindu/Muslim culture?

What Shiv Sena and other so called Hindu org are doing is cannot be validated? Rather it is repercussion of the acts of Muslim organizations and thus whole country is being spoiled.

Have u ever pondered over the partition of India, which took place on the basis of religion? How many Muslims protested that act, ask ur father or grandfather if they are alive? Muslims have 52 nations to live at, do we have any?

Do not forget that ur forefather’s were Hindus and pay due regard to them. U are Indian and fully Indian.  Do not search ur origin anywhere else?   There are lot of Muslims in this country who may have converted to Islam but are following their parent culture and tradition/customs. Lots of Muslim women put “Sindur” on their head and perform “Chhath” festival. From social fabric of rural India u will find it difficult to separate Hindu and Muslims. But unfortunately hate culture has spread everywhere.

My advice to u become “Sanjay” from “Sajid”.  

Sajid Sheikh (Student)     12 July 2010

This reply is for Mr Ashutosh Jayaswal.

I went through your reply twice and I was somehow shoked but I didnt know why I smiled...bt soon I knew...I'll tell u why >>>

  1. I beleive you have Just gone through the first post of this topic and you have formulated your reply for It. Firstly you quoted " Have u ever gone against such type of Muslims and condemned their activity for the sake of Nation on which u proud of?" Most respectfully i want to say thai many times in my rebuttals and replies on my post I have also condemmed the actions of muslim fanatics (in general) overwelhmently. So read all my replies once again
  2. Secondly you quoted, "Have u ever criticized or raised a voice against the fatwa issued by the Muslim org. on Vande Matram....."

             Sir I will explain my such behaviour with a simple illustration Please Try to catch it... If I have water            problem in my locality and have fatwa problem in say...in Mumbai...Will I condemn water problem or fatwas. Its simple but impressive . I dont know what you caught ...but I will definately condem water problem of my locality first. Your this comment sounds Pessimistic. You think that a person should condem all wrongs at a time. May be you can do it But I am a normal person and I accept that i cant do it altogether. But at the same time I assure you that they should be condemmed and Its not only my duty as you said but a moral duty of the whole community because these people also live in our localities.

 

          3. Thirdly as you said, "If we will criticize or condemn unsocial or miscreants elements in Muslims, thing     will take different turn" You are very well right but .....If you are reciprocating it with Shiv Sena issue then you are comitting a blunder. Killing a single person amounts to murder and killing ten is also murder. We should not neglect this issue only on this reason thinking it on Legal aspects.

         4. "What Shiv Sena and other so called Hindu org are doing is cannot be validated? Rather it is repercussion of the acts of Muslim organizations...."......This may be you infantile opinion but I want to make it clear that is against Westernisation and not for what u stated unknowingly. Even if it may be a repercussion ....it is highly condemmed AND THEIR ACTIONS REGARDING THIS ARE NEVER JUSTIFIED.

Lastly I am pained to inform you that you have very little Knowledge on this issue and you are baselessely  sticking it with other issues and in a way creating a chaos. Beleive me you yourself are jumbled in this question due to your lack of appropriate legal knowledge concerning this topic. If you have any problem with muslim terror groups create a new topic regarding that and atleast  i'll definately reply on it.

"Do not forget that ur forefather’s were Hindus......... hate culture has spread everywhere." I dont regret the very truth that all the muslims of India are geographically hindus first. And Im not even against the hybrid culture followed in some places in India.

But I dont understand why you adviced me to change my name to Sanjay....???

I dont want to comment on this advice but i want to say that the namr Sajid Sheikh suits me...but u cann call me sanjay..(with a smile..:-))

"We must promote good thinking and good lawyers. Rule of law must prevail for the good health of Democracy."

CHANNGE YOUR THOUGHTS OR CHANGE YOUR PROFILE....

 

Regards

Sajid Sheikh


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