Grand fathers propery
Guest
(Querist) 14 August 2018
This query is : Resolved
i am from Tamil Nadu.My grand father died in the year of 1982. We dont have death certificate. My grand father had 3 daughters and a son. My father is the only son of my grand father. All the 3 daughters were dead. The property is still in my grandfathers name.
my question is Do my aunt's son have the rights in the property ? . My aunts got married in the years of 1950s i guess.
Can my father transfer the property to my name without any issue?.
Please help me.
Vijay Raj Mahajan
(Expert) 14 August 2018
Grandfather property after his death goes to all his children including all his sons and daughters. If any of the child dead, his or her share in the property goes to his or her heirs which can be the children and spouse.
Your father cannot claim his sole ownership in the property of his father and cannot transfer the same in your name when there are other heirs of the grandfather or his heirs heir living, like son of the daughter of your grandfather.
Guest
(Querist) 14 August 2018
My father is managing the property
Guest
(Querist) 14 August 2018
HI sir, i heard "In a ruling that will restrict the right of women seeking equal share in ancestral property, the Supreme Court has said that the 2005 amendment in Hindu law will not give property rights to a daughter if the father died before the amendment came into force."
All these year my father is paying tax. receipts are my fathers name. Some of the properties got transferred to my fathers name. but still some of the properties are in my grand fathers name. Lands are different village. One village officer transferred to properties to my father name. the village office somwhow missed it after my grandfathers death.
please advice me sir
Vijay Raj Mahajan
(Expert) 14 August 2018
This not ancestral property but self acquired property of the grandfather that on his death devolved to his children. 2005 amendment in Hindu Succession Act doesn't apply in this case that is for copacenary property only.
Vijay Raj Mahajan
(Expert) 14 August 2018
This is not ancestral property but self acquired property of the grandfather that on his death devolved to his children. 2005 amendment in Hindu Succession Act doesn't apply in this case that is for copacenary property only.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 14 August 2018
Which personal law applies in your case?
Are all involved Hindu?
Who was 1st owner of said property amongst our forefathers; your deceased grandfather?
The property in the hands of deceased grandfather was self earned/acquired/ancestral?
Confirm!
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 14 August 2018
Succession opens on date of death ; by inheritance or by testamentary succession ( by valid WILL).
Notional partition may happen upon death of title holder.
In case of Hindu male dying without disposing her estate/property in her life time by a valid/registered deed the 1st right is of ClassI legal heirs i.e Mother (if alive as on date of death), Wife (if alive as on date of death), sons, daughters……, pre-deceased sons, daughters..
In case of deceased Hindu woman dying without disposing her estate/property in her life time by a valid/registered deed ClassI,II is not applicable rather nature and source of property matters.
If the property is self acquired/earned/absolute in the hands of Hindu woman the 1st right is of her husband (if alive as on date of death) and sons, daughters…………
If property is acquired from husband side 1st right is of her sons, daughters…………and if sons, daughters are not available then legal heirs of husband..
If property is acquired from parents side 1st right is of her sons, daughters…………and if sons, daughters are not available then legal heirs of father..
The above can give you an idea who owns how much share.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 14 August 2018
The authority under whose jurisdiction property falls has a set procedure for such matters if NO WILL has surfaced; Intestate Succession…….and the prescribed forms, procedure, process is available in O/o Authority and even on website. Death certificates, legal heir certificate/affidavit (per local procedure-precedence) are basic requirements. Then authority shall act upon and transfer the ownership in the name of legal heirs. Obtain copy of updated mutations records showing share of legal heirs. This grants rights equal to that of owner to legal heirs. All legal heirs are at liberty to relinquish/release/transfer/gift/sell their share in anyone’s favor...............
Or amicably register family settlement deed with boundaries...
Or partition by boundaries amicably and register the deed..
Or approach court to partition with boundaries..
The mutation records may be updated..
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 14 August 2018
Approach a very able senior LOCAL counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in succession/civil matters and well versed with latest citations, LOCAL applicable rules/laws/ … and having successful track record…. and worth his/her salt…..and show the case related docs etc etc for a considered opinion to handle any situation…properly.
Your counsel can help to understand the share of each co-sharer, get death certificate, legal heir certificate, to sign suitable deed amicably and register or get partitioned by court.
Your father may ask to pay him the expenses incurred on taxes etc
and other can ask for mense profits, as your father has been enjoying the property....
Guest
(Querist) 14 August 2018
All are hindu.
First owner of the property.: forefathers
All property was owned by my forefathers. My Grandfather Didnt earn anything
In my village, my Grandfather had four brothers. all four got their share from their forefathers.
All of my kins(male member from grandfathers brothers family) sold land with out any issues..(No share to female..they got gift/dowry during their marriage)as the property got transferred to their names. Only the next generation female got theirs share. This is how people sell land in my village.
Only part of the land was not transferred to my fathers name.
please advice me.
Dr J C Vashista
(Expert) 15 August 2018
Unbelievable story as the ancestral property is mutated within one year of death of titleholder, wherein you have stated that your grandfather expired in the year 1982.
What is the property, viz; agriculture, residential, commercial or industrial etc. ?
I disagree with the opinion and advise of expert Mr. Vijay Raj Mahajan, father of the queriest shall inherit the property.
Do not rely upon obligation of experts on this platform although it is available FREE OF COST, consult a local lawyer for better appreciation of facts, guidance and proceeding.
.
Guest
(Expert) 15 August 2018
Unconvincing story!
Great fallacies appear quite clearly in your descriptions, when, as per your own profile, you are from Abohar, which is situated in Punjab State, while you stated that you are from Tamil Nadu. Further, your name, 'Praveen' clearly denotes that you are a Punjabi and belong to Punjab, not to Tamil Nadu. Still further, you have stated, the property to be in your grandfather's name, but still treat it as ancestral property.
Apparently, your is not a real problem, but a hypothetical academic query.
However, if there is even the slightest truth in your story, you may show the case related documents to some local lawyer and get appropriate advice.
Guest
(Querist) 15 August 2018
We are former. so we have all kind of property like dry land, agricultural land,house. As the my fathers is the onlt male child of my grandfather , he inherited everything by default after my grandfathers death.
Thats what happened to my relative families. The only issue is some of the property was nor inherited due to Village officer's negligence.This is my understanding.
I am not sure . whether i am correct or not as i dont have legal knowledge.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 21 August 2018
Ancestral Property: that is four generation old …..the property acquired by the Hindu great grand father, which then passes undivided down the next three generations up to the present generation of great grand son/daughter.
Self acquired property can become ancestral property if it is thrown into the pool of ancestral properties and enjoyed in common.
In your 1st post you have mentioned that;
The property is still in my grandfathers name.
“i am from Tamil Nadu.My grand father died in the year of 1982. We dont have death certificate. My grand father had 3 daughters and a son. My father is the only son of my grand father. All the 3 daughters were dead. The property is still in my grandfathers name. my question is Do my aunt's son have the rights in the property ? . My aunts got married in the years of 1950s i guess. Can my father transfer the property to my name without any issue?. Please help me”
From your next post IT seesm that property has been partitioned…may be in accordance with prevailing LOCAL revenue codes/rules…or partition deed or IT was just that each Co-sharer occupied the share as per inheritance..
Was land mutated properly and mutation record updated?
Do you have copy of mutations records with all link docs?
If property was partitioned then mutation reord could have been updated and the property should lose IT’s ancestral character (IF IT was ancestral).
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 21 August 2018
In your next post, you have mentioned;
“All are hindu. First owner of the property.: forefathers All property was owned by my forefathers. My Grandfather Didnt earn anything In my village, my Grandfather had four brothers. all four got their share from their forefathers. All of my kins(male member from grandfathers brothers family) sold land with out any issues..(No share to female..they got gift/dowry during their marriage)as the property got transferred to their names. Only the next generation female got theirs share. This is how people sell land in my village. Only part of the land was not transferred to my fathers name. please advice me.”
In your last post you have mentioned that;
As the my fathers is the onlt male child of my grandfather , he inherited everything by default after my grandfathers..
“We are former. so we have all kind of property like dry land, agricultural land,house. As the my fathers is the onlt male child of my grandfather , he inherited everything by default after my grandfathers death. Thats what happened to my relative families. The only issue is some of the property was nor inherited due to Village officer's negligence.This is my understanding. I am not sure . whether i am correct or not as i dont have legal knowledge.”
In previous post you have mentioned that; The property is still in my grandfathers name.
Has mutation record been updated?
If, yes then the property (share of your father) shold be reflecting in your father’s name and not in your grandfather’s name.
Your father shall inherit whole property of his father if and only if he was sole legal heir (not by default)..
The legal heirs as per Hindu Succession Laws has already been explained above..
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 21 August 2018
Here once again the concerned authoirity e.g; VO shall mutate the property whose updation in mutation records is sought with supporting documents e.g; sale deed/previous mutations records/death certificate/legal hier certificate etc …for inheritance ( Virasat Ka Intkaal)..
If some property was missed then IT could be lapse on part of yur grandfather/father also..
Without death certificate how could VO mutate the property?
Check LOCALLY..
May be you have not obtained proper record as already explained or there is some hanky panky in the matter..
If there was an error as per your post, the legal hier(s) has to represent to the authority or get the property properly portioned with boundaries or setle amicably with boundaries and register the deed, as already explained above also..
Probbaly you are contemplating denial of share to aunts by state law applicable as on date/month/year of forefather(s) as mentioned by you in the query……and relating with State laws…as ruling law on the date of succession.
The position by State Law (if applicable in your matter) might be;
e.g; in Tamil Nadu,If death of father (forefathersas in yor query) had occurred after March 25, 1989 but before December 20, 2004, the benefit of enlargement of right may not be available for those who were married as on March 25, 1989….
The facts posted by you donot convey clear message..
The very able LOCAL counsel as already suggested shall have required legal knowledge that querist (you) does not have and can relate with prevailing enactments..
Ask for proper written legal opinion.
The counsel can provide you with clarity.
Thereafter your father can arrive at correct position as per law and may transfer the property in your name..
If aunts have share then what is the point in inviting litigation.
Better to settle by registered family settlement deed (with boundaries) and end the scope of litigation on merits, forever, as already explained above.
