no, we are responsible for our problems.

copying western coulture by Indians is responsible to some extent for moral degradation in India.

Rejoinder:
You may not need to write a book, rest assured let prudent mind cometh and showeth to you while you are in  for a pause;

What do you think of the Delhi bus gang-r@pe case?
Take: Cruel and Barbaric if whatever media reported is true. I know only the media version and believe they can create hype from nothing too.

Why do you think it caught so much attention?
Take: Paid media attention. Media was paid by feminists to create this hype to pass extreme gender biased laws.

Why do other r@pes not catch equal attention?
Take: Earlier such attempts were made in Mumbai (Madhur Bhandarkar Vs. Priti Jain case) Gurgaon case and in Guwahati cases. All three turned out to be false. This was in agenda for quite sometime and now this is materialized. Passing the extreme laws were the main motive behind such hype.

Why do you think so many r@pes and s*xual assaults happen in India? What are the main reasons?
Take: It is NOT that so many r@pes happen ! It is SO MANY false cases reported. It will only increase with more women centric laws, false affidavit given more weight (maid of Shiney Ahuja was about to be prosecuted for false affidavit when Maharashtra State has to come to bail her out and seek State’s pardon on her behalf and matter got closed then but Shiney is still on the dock and now ? is any woman raised doubt about the case till date and asked Shiney to be compensated for mental agony he is still facing from his own Industry!). Also with laws becoming more lenient and women given more leeway to term any s*x as r@pe per her wish will increase number of convictions. This is another hidden agenda the feminists have and in coming days they will be able to prove that to be true.

Do you think "modern culture" is responsible for this?
Take: To some extent semi nude women are responsible. They want to attract attention (HT newspaper statement of Priyanka Chopra where she said on published record; I walk naked in street and no one should r@pe me! What was that readers J) and men's s*xual behavior throws strong signals to him leading to these incidents. Wearing revealing clothes and asking men not to react is a form of visual teasing by women. They wear such revealing clothes to attract attention but demand respect instead. Men and women are made to be partners not meant to be worshipping each other.

Many people feel women's freedom is responsible for the rise in s*xual crime how they dress, how late they go out, if they have relationships outside marriage, if they go to bars or work independently. Do you agree?
Take: Yes. Regarding dress it may be viewed as moral policing but even we men are not allowed to dress certain ways in public. Lets respect civilization.

Do you think women are responsible in any way for being assaulted by men? Do you think that women / some women bring it upon themselves
Take: Yes and NO. There are many women who do not invite these brutes. Also some take precautions as to select which places to visit at night and where not to visit. As men even we take precautions to avoid any assault on us. So there is no harm if women are asked to take some precautions.

Are you comfortable with women getting freedom?
Take: Yes. But not the way it is happening today. They can get freedom but NOT at the cost of men.

Do you think Indian women have enough freedom or should they in fact get more freedom?
Take: They have more than enough freedom.

What do you think should be men's attitude towards women? Do you feel there is anything wrong in the general Indian man's attitude towards women? If so what?
Take: Men and women are made to be partners NOT to worship each others as women demand today. We do things to attract the opposite s*x as that is why we are created. Indian men in general display a lot of respect toward women and always ready to protect them. They do not hesitate to come out in large number in support of women's rights and also term themselves as rapist, criminal.

What is wrong in Indian men's attitude is accepting every single demand from women as their right and believing them as oppressed?.
Take: This has led to women demanding anything and everything and men losing respect and a right to live a dignified life. Indian men need to treat women as human beings NOT as goddesses.

What do you think is the root of the problem? Is it in the background? Educational system or upbringing? Where do you think that this mindset against women is emerging from?
Take: From daily media report and focus on showing women as victims. In general there is no mindset against women in fact the recent Delhi case has shown how men have come forward in support of women. If there is any hatred being built that is because of women criminals not being punished under several laws. Once men start getting justice this hatred will also go away.

What were you taught to think about women in your own family? Do you think women should have equal freedom as men? Has your thinking changed in any way as you have grown up and been exposed to other ways of thinking?

Take: One was taught to respect women - we did to be a provider and protector for women - We did. Still we see our self termed as a criminal and DO NOT find any peaceful legal justice for the injustice done on me by a woman. Women should have EQUAL freedom only not all the freedom. Yes our thinking changed substantially over the years when we realized that we can protect women only if we were protected. Since we are not protected we refuse to protect women (except my mother and sister) around us.

Lots of women today like to enjoy their bodies - wear nice clothes, many of them are comfortable with having relationships before marriage or outside of marriage. Do you think this is good or bad for society?
Take: I don't believe in interfering in anyone's personal life and choice. What I protest is women terming these as r@pe per their convenience. When women want they flaunt their body in public and term that as empowerment freedom for showing private parts in public they should not call men as perverts when men react to their advances. If they have s*x before marriage let them enjoy but when they terminate their pregnancy they should not blame men for female foeticide.

Do you think pop culture has any role to play in the way society behaves?
Take: No idea.

Do you agree that there are a lot of molesting / r@pes / unwanted forced s*x within families that girls are asked to be quiet about to preserve honour?
Take: NO (even though Stats. say otherwise). If there is, the girls may also be responsible for that. If not they need to bring these cases up. 

What is your concept of a modern successful woman?
Take: Who will not tease men in the name of freedom by revealing private parts in public and still demand 'respect...who will not show her legal strength to intimidate men and who will want to work for a living and will not be beggar to other men and depend on his maintenance’.

What is your concept of an ideal man -- in terms of how he deals with women?
Take: He should deal with a woman like a human being. Not WORSHIP her or fulfill all her demands.

There is so much discussion about r@pe in the country today, how do you think this problem can be fixed?
Take: Teach women self defence techniques. Implement s*x education in schools. If some men and women have more than normal s*xual desire have clinics for them to be treated. This is more of psychological disorder than physical. Create awareness. Don't force these men to be viewed as criminals.

Why do you think Government new law will hurt men's interest?
Take: Any woman will file r@pe cases for their benefit and the innocent men will end up paying huge penalty to these women. He will be convicted for a crime he never committed like is happening in US or other western countries today. This will harm women's interest as well. Nowadays these laws that are created for women empowerment does not make sure that women are empowered without filing a false r@pe case breaking her own marriage or may be accusing some wealthy men in some false case. These women who do not file such cases will continue to work hard for a living wait to seek a good partner (and may not get any). Because men will be increasingly skeptical about all women as NO woman today demands the criminal women to be severely punished. So in general the credibility of women is coming down and they will be viewed as selfish and opportunists. In coming days women in large numbers will not get any alliance and they are becoming increasingly precious.

What do you mean by legal r@pe of INDIAN husbands. Can you elaborate? -

Take: It is happening everyday. All women friendly laws are forcing husbands to pay up non existing wives, give away their house, property and still termed as criminal. The entire legal system and the society behaves that way and men die a silent death. They commit suicide even any one noticing that! No media or LCI female writer or women's group ever demand punishment for these law mis-users.

Delhi attacks are a text book example of how a violent incident is turned into a women's rights issue. What do you think about it?
Take: I am PISSED OFF and now want India as a nation to suffer for this. I have tried to prevent but failed.

Parallel illustration:

FIRST ENJOY > WHEN SATISFIED > CRY FOR R@PE > THUS LAW NEEDS TO BE GENDER NEUTRAL;

Link:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Lieutenant-Colonel-accuses-Ahmedabad-cop-of-r@pe/articleshow/17946765.cms

A very practical and ethical explanation full with wisdom given by the Senior.Hats off !!!

tajobs,although i dont agree to all your views.i enjoyed your write up.

but please  dont divert the thread into another topic.if you really wanted people to read your views on rape,you cud have started a new thread  for this.now no one will know your views since the title says something different.

if you let us know your views on what i have written,that will be nice.

@ Lady,

Firstly, what is question here? If you already know Indians blame everything on western culture (as per your so called question) do you want to know why they blame?

Even after India being a developing country western people consider us of very low standard, why don’t you consider questioning these people too about their mentality?

It’s a matter of fact that western people hire 'Foolish' people in their companies. Strangely they are the bone and blood of the western companies.

Reply to your theory # 1. Coming to your dowry system, I never heard we got the dowry system copied from western culture. It was Indian culture since 17^th. Century. Infact British enacted Law in Punjab of giving ‘dowry’ as compulsory for the then native subjects. You want to know that Law just ask me politely I will publish the entire PDF file from archives for your brain revival.
It is high time some History lessons on which cultures followed Dowry you should read from me instead of time passing in legal forums;
Ancient Babylon – read Code of Hammurabi in ancient Babylon.
Ancient Rome - In Rome a dowry was called donatio propter nuptias, ask a teacher to tell you meaining of words I inked here.
India before European influence - Dowry was not a part of the Indian marriage before European influence crept into the society. The earliest example of Europeans practicing the dowry in India, the case of Mumbai, which was presented as part of the dowry when Princess Catherine de Braganza of Portugal was married to King Charles II in 1661.
North America (Indigenous cultures) - According to one ethnographic study of indigenous cultures worldwide, around 6 percent of North American indigenous cultures practised reciprocal exchange, involving the giving of gifts between both the bride and groom's families.
Mexico - Spanish colonists brought the dowry custom to Mexico.
New France - The French government made efforts to encourage marriage for the male soldiers and traders in New France by granting dowries to women willing to travel to the colony at Quebec.
United States of America - The dowry was a custom brought to the United States by colonists from England and elsewhere in Europe.
Europe - Dowry was widely practiced in Europe until the early modern era incuding Germany, Portugal, Greece, Turkey, Italy and England.
Brazil - The dowry was a custom brought to Brazil by Portuguese settlers.
Donot worry I will not ROTFL like you LOL in your very first question before us.

Reply to your theory # 2. Your next point, abusive words learnt from friends. Well so you are saying we Indians whose mother tongue is not even English made up the abusive words? That is a piece of news. If you were talking about Hindi abusive words then I don’t think any body blamed western people of teaching us those words.

Reply to your theory # 3. About the killing matter, don’t tell me western people don’t kill. Inspite of female infanticide and everything, we have the rule of not attacking another country on our own. Sandy Hook Elementary School is not in India incase you didnot learnt geography lessons.

Reply to your theory # 4. Your next point, loud blasting music. Tell me what do you do in a disco? Do you go there to sleep? Well I thought we party in a disco, so its same in India and west. We play loud music in parties. You play loud music in discos where you party. One and the same thing isn’t it?

Reply to your theory # 5. Western people are not backbiters? Well I thought Abraham Lincoln was killed. Sorry if he was asked by his killer "sir may I kill you". Go and buy the DVD of the movie which won critic choice award recently ‘Lincoln’.

Reply to your theory # 6. About the nudity part well they (western people) don’t show nude women and men deliberately, they unknowingly capture the s*x part and show them on TV. We understand it’s not deliberately that’s why we cut that 'un-deliberate' part off and show on Indian channels.

Reply to your theory # 7. Don’t tell me rapes don’t happen in western side. I want you to have a clear study on this subject and then talk. Well talking about rights  in India also we are given equal rights as per law. Our law is more lenient to women more than the western ones.

Reply to your theory # 8. Really? As the development increases the care for each other decreases so their the care will be less, Or if you are saying care will be lesser here, indirectly you are saying India is more developed. Agree to either of it, your point is in vain, makes me wonder where you got your education from!.

Reply to your theory # 9. We fight because we care. 'goras' or whoever it is they wont be fighting but they move off even without thinking twice about parents or anything.

Reply to your theory # 10. If western people are so much of saints why need of courts there? People through out world need money. It’s a basic entity. 

Reply to your theory # 11. Yes, western people don’t talk bad about their religion or their country. Unlike some people like you who talk bad about their country publicly. You eat, drink and sh*t here yet you can’t blame whole of Indians for the work of the people like you do.

You can go on writing rude here, well writing without any point is so easy and your profile history speaks a lot about your writing questions to us.

And dear LCI member @ lady n o one is blaming foreigners, it’s kind of usage 'western culture'. It’s not like we have banned foreigners in our country so take a chill pill.

It is always pleasure replying to your post.
 

Savvy!

PS: You can always tell mods. / admin. to delete my rebuttal post and you by now know I never mind deletions of my postings.

Raised Issues

starting....

Issue - I have been hearing in all these years(and started believing to a large extent)that the moral degradation in Indian society is a consequence of the western culture permeating India

Reply-The objective of holding such notion was not to point fingers towards the culture of Western Society. Culture has no perfect definition and widely varies from society to society,regions to regions,country to country and so on. What seems to a cultured act in a society may come under uncultured act in a different society. The mixture of culture has no harm up to the point where the dominating effect of one over  another has not started. The war for the existence between two cultures arises only when such mixture comes on the enmity terms rather than supportive or positive terms. Then comes the question 'Which one to choose if only one has to exist'.?! China does show strong willingness to resist where such question arises.Now it's upon INDIA AND INDIANS TO DECIDE how to act!!!

Issue 1. Dowry system-Not followed by Americans and British.Yet we say our materialistic culture is coz of them.LOL!

Reply- Dowry is a kind of gift now known as 'Stridhan' which was not a system then,rather it's was a way for a King kind person to show his 'Aishwarya' and a opportunity to show the prosperity of his state to the rival states.Dowry itself is not considered an illegal term unless the word 'system' is added.This system started only because the word 'demands' and all evil starts with this very word 'demand'. Western Society gave us illusion of the wordly pleasures which was contrary to the thought of our 'Rishis','Munis'. They made our people so addicted to the wordly pleasure and they still do so(Fashion,Cosmetics,Mall culture.,Luxary Cars,Luxary Bathroom,an innumerable list) and for these luxaries one is forced to become materialistic(Avarice,Dishonesty,and so on).Once you come under the cluth of 'Materiasm',you become demanding in nature,and thus the birth of root cause of all evils takes place that is 'Avarice'. Therefore, they somehow directly or indirectly,because of our ignorant nature(We were a simple rural people at that time too) influence our idea and thus in legal terms they are the abettor of evils taking place in our country.

Issue 2.Younger generation uses foul language jokingly,and also when they have to abuse someone.....But westerners are v.decent & polite to talk to.They respect uour freedom to express a different viewpoint unlike Indians who abuse you(including in online forums)when you present a different viewpoint.That we are athe world's biggest democracy is just aan illusion.In fact westerners are far more democratic and I have onserved that in online forums also,they disgree to your viewpoint,but with decency.As per my observations,Indians who have never gone abroad have learnt foul language from their frenz and upbringing also has a role..

Reply-The problem lies in upbringing of the children. They are ignorant and their mind is like a blank blackboard. It's upon the Society as how they like to upbring their youths. The ruthlessness,anger,un-cultured behavior,irresponsible act of  younger generation is not only pervalent in India but in the other countries too including the western region. There were several recent incidents of voilence by the school going juveniles in America. Even in some incidents there was loss of lives too. Racist Remarks is one of the verbal voilence in such countries. Thus, the whole world is grappling by this problem we together can fight and lodge a win over such evils.

Issue 3. Female infanticide-Westerners did not teach us to kill female fotuses since they dont treat them as burden.they dont believe in show offs in marriages unlike us.so no burden in raising a girl child.

Reply-The real problem is not the female infanticide in itself, rather than the causation of such event is of great importance.Even our Scriptures is not proponent of such evil act.The real problem is poverty and imbalance in the life style and thinking to live in luxary.Our society is fearing with the event of birth of a girl child that they will find it difficult to give her basic necessities of life that is 'Roti',Kapda','aur 'Makan'.The first necessity can be fulfilled regardless of the gender of the child in equal sharing without any hitch,but, when matter comes to the second two basic neccesities,the girl child needs more in proportion especially when in juvenile age and cannot be avoided at all as compared to the male child.A girl child needs more care and protection as compared to their counterpart,failing to which,the parent in context is bound to be pressurized by the society and equally despairing.To eradicate such evil from roots and branch, the eradication of poverty is vital and indispensable aspect.Don't you agree?

Issue 4. Loud blasting music in parties-People in the west use loud music only in discotheques.Elsewhere (as in restaurants)they listen to soft music.They dont enjoy blasting music in public placesbecause they are frequented by children and old alike who may face inconvenience.But we,on the other hand,will listen to blasting music in marriages, even late night without thinking about neighbours who cant sleep as a result.Blame it on North Indian culture.But for this also the affected persons blame western culture!!

Reply-This problem is rampant in cities especially metros. I remember a story written by 'Dr. R.K. Narayan' in which it is shown that how the emp converts the poor honest and satisfied farmer to behave like a swine. I recommend that story to all who come to read my post.The catastrophic nature of luxary has taken a toll upon our lives and moral values. Who gave the notion of luxary?Read point in the reply of quest 1,though it doesn't prove our innocense.

Issue 5. Lack of punctuality in workplaces,backbiting,politics in workplaces to pull an honest coworker down.Westerners follow great professional ethics unlike us,for we have a crab mentality.

Reply-Here I can't disagree.

Issue 6. Cheap vulgar films where foul language is also used-Eve teasing is predominent.Munni badnaam hui,sheela ki jawani,etc type filthy songs only in hindi movies.If you notice all English movies,they dont use foul language,or have dirty songs.They dont show women nude DELIBERATELY just for profits,which indian producers do.

Reply-Really, English movies don't use foul language!!! Strange!!! you must be watching it on small screen only then. Anyway have you ever seen English movies?Watch for 'F' letter words,'M' letter words and so on.

Issue 7. Eve teasing,rapes in india-Western culture doesnt teach people to disrespect women.It gives equal rights to women.Women can roam freely without any threats even at night,unlike in india.

Reply-Equal rights has no relevance with the problem of eve-teasing. Eve-teasing is universal. Merely sitting at home and predicting about the happenings in the world is of no use and probably i have already replied this raised issue in one of my previous post.Indian do repects woman more than any other country and history as well as our scripttures are evident of this fact.

Issue 8.Not helping an accident victim on Delhi roads.This selfishness on the part of people is also attributed to western culture.But in west,if a person gets injured on roads,the nearby public and police rush to help immediately.So why blame those poor foreigners for our own mentality.

Issue 9. Joint families breaking is also coz of w.culture.Oh come on!The jealousy ridden sister inlaws and the divide and rule policy by mother inlaw is responsible.These "goras" dont fight like cats and dogs over milk,maid servant and which daughter-in-law got more expensive saree from the mother-in-law.

Issue 10. Brothers being materialistic and fighting with each other over parental property-Well westerners dont fight with their siblings in rowdy manner or take advantages of legal loopholes to full their material lust..Its our own mentality to accumulate as much wealth as we can.

Reply-Issue number 8,9, and 10 have already been answered by me and the senior in one way or the other.

Issue 11. Indians,esp hindus spit on their own civilization and will never agree to reading of vedas or upanishads to cleanse their polluted minds.americans are so devoted to their own religion.even if they dont follow it in totality,they never talk **** about it,unlike we hindus.now for this degradation of hindus also,w.culture is blamed!

Reply- It's a double standard thought. If you talk about vedas and upanishads,then don't talk about equal rights and eve-teasing and such feminist questions. All will fall in place if every person,regardless of the gender,in the society behaves as per the direction given by our holy scripttures. But will the feminist organization as well as studs who always indulged in hip hops show and appear in page 3, ever follow such teachings!!!

Misc. Issue 1-I can go on writing more.but i am not in the mood to write a book!

Reply-You please proceed.

Misc Issue 2. What is your opinion?Should we still blame those poor chaps for our problems?

Reply -The question remains 'who is to blame',that I wish a title given to this topic.

Thanks,

Regards,