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What is my right to defend in court without lawyer

Page no : 2

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     19 September 2011

Due respect to lawyer's profession. But, it should not become business. 

 

Real life is not that cozy for all. I am slowly becoming aware of cases where young girls/their parents went through a procedural marriage, while they have some other boy/family on mind just because they are sure that the former can be blackmailed somehow to draw benefits that would not have been possible otherwise. This is true with in jobs too. I find some jobs are created with ulterior motives. The crook who deserved nothing but boot becomes a boss, a no man becomes a minister etc by virtue of that victim's dedication. It is that victim's losses, pains, miseries that feed these unjust gains. It drains the victim in all such cases and renders him pauper.

 

Professional knowledge is not meant to kill, create more injustice. Should fence graze the grass? Well, lawyers kill the person by killing a victim in the portals of justice when s/he places his/her everything for justice.  Imagine what will happen if all the professionals start doing the same? If doctors do that, you will get new diseases. If nuclear scientists do that, there will be more bomb blasts, much more serious ones. If chemical engineers do that, there will be more Bhopal gas tragedies. If mechanics do that, there will be brake failures leading to death due to accidents..........................

 

To cut a long story short, some victims are forced to fight the case IN PERSON. This is why constitution has provisioned for it. It will be wrong to say that one MUST engage an advocate to argue his case all the time. Judges should NOT insist upon this. They should do their duty. Facts, law, ethics etc tests alone should determine the outcome of the case. Nothing is more heinous, sinful than judge/s, court adding miseries, injustices to such victims/in such cases.

Manav Kalia (Arguing my own cases..)     19 September 2011

Agree with the sentiments of p suresh. In reality you have good and bad doctors, engineers, nuclear scientists, mechanics etc. Similarly you have good and bad lawyers and judges. Depends on your luck and how well informed you are. In case of judges, some judges actually give extra help to parties in person based on their lack of knowledge of the law. But they are few in number, majority of judges are biased against party in person. Because lawyers and judges have studied law for years, they feel threatened by non-lawyers who display good knowledge of law, or argue persuasively. That is the sad reality of the legal stucture in our country..

AMAR RANU (Legal consultancy)     21 September 2011

The real tragedy of our legal system is that  we don't have competent and trained judges in this country and that is the crux of the whole issue.Their excessive dependence on professional advocates have killed their own initiative to set things right in  cases being heard by them..

Please rember that the competency of the judge is known from the way he/she handles a party-in-person in the court proceedings.


Manav Kalia (Arguing my own cases..)     21 September 2011

I agree worn amar ranu completely. Case in point my own cases. My divorce / hma judge is much more favorable to party in person than my dv judge. So I have an example of good and bad judge right in front of me. But it wud be unfair to cast all judges in a bad l light. S.N.Dhingra (Delhi HC) and few others like him seem to be really fantastic judges considering they are constrained by the idiosyncracies of Indian legal system. Point is that there is always light at the end of a dark tunnel, and thanks to some of the judges I have not lost hope with Indian judiciary....

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     21 September 2011

While one has some goods, by and large there is so much to regret, complain [behavior, unfairness right in the blood, nepotism, incompetence, non-compassion, head-weight, arrogance, inability to read (that 6th sense) etc etc etc etc..... tons and tons and tons] on and on and on......... This is not meant to ridicule individuals/entities/law/courts etc. But, I have first hand experience of injustice and am calling a spade a spade with the best of intentions from within my capacity as a honorable citizen. Nothing here should be drawn beyond levels/contexts at which thoughts have been expressed loudly amidst like minded community. So much of pain has been endured, so much of pain has been taken to scriptt this; so much of precious resources has been expended, is being expended on this sort of exercise for welfare reasons that would auger well for society at large, nation at large and not for any publicity, money, personal gains etc as what mundane thinking may go.

 

Coming back to the topic, the very recruitment terms shows that there is lot of scope for undesirable elements. No wonder individuals who are crowned resort to all sorts of …….

 

If one is habituated, inclined etc during the term of x years to 60 years, they become masters. Their roots are so deep, they are so well acquainted, hardened that injustice due to them raises exponentially AFTER 60 and this is a prime reason why India .............................. It has become a vicious loop of never ending success for that x, y, z at the cost of those a, b, c.

 

So called pErmanence and its equivalents per se is a crime. There should be no way for any incompetent, unjust, questionable character to keep going on and on unhindered, raise up and up. There are many individuals whose very recruitment at 16,18, 20, 22, 24…..  is questionable. That coveted RECruitMINT happened only because some unseen individual/RULE itself was stabbed, circumvented etc etc. Such ruthless individuals end up as equivalents of highest post/s, chair/s or even supersede them, all due to politics, manipulations, misuse of professional knowledge etc etc. 

 

My countrymen, Things are drastically wrong. What to say, where to say, how to cry, ............. It is worse to be a living, moving ghost than death in itself. One gets cheated. One gets humiliated, mauled; all at that critical moment all because one stands tall enough amidst all odds and fights for that odd cause which could have as well been passed off with a blind googly signature. One gets awarded with OFFishial picnics, booze in a party/hotel inland/offshore; promoSHUN whether eligible or not, whether one contributes or not etc for that!!!!!

 

But, then one's conscience pinched, pinches, will pinch to take that mountain off from the national map, grab that agricultural land, destroy that small/big worship centre in name of this or that project while there are far far far better alternatives etc. One’s conscience constantly hums Lata Mangeshkar, “Jo Shaheed Huai … Yaad Karo Kurubani”. One gets to become that Shaheed for that costly mistake of not toeing the line, as what these individuals keep reminding. In practice the person with such principles, causes, honesty is made to lose.

 

It is all for, to, by 'Asathyameva Jayathe' in reality. What a loss when X, Y, Z sucks up one's trust, blood, sweat scrupulously to feed illegal person/cause by deceit. It happens in context of law, rules in relevant places/contexts. Should it happen in courts? Should law professionals resort to this? One gets murdered for having placed that ultimate confidence on that ........... It is well to re-record that it is not to paint all courts/judges/lawyers/law as bad etc. But then the context is to show that one gets derailed not due to one's fault, but because s/he is made to fall by some deliberate this or that in violation of pure justice/ethics etc. The point here is that, if this happens at the very portals of justice and committed by that very person who should protect dharma, then.......................

 

Yes, individuals, rather law professionals (judges, court masters, registry staff, lawyers or whatever they are called in their hierarchy) do misuse their professional knowledge in wrongful ways and cause disasters for those who have never done any bad to them, but have sacrificed their own for the sake of that satisfaction of having done their duty to nation, God.

 

Not that other professionals are Gods. But, then, if law professionals turn to this, all right in the portals of justice, it is a worst bombshell, a bomb that will devastate that individual who made that difference in x, y, z that you, me, we enjoy.

-----------xxxxxxxxxx---------------

Enclosed file is extract that shows how qualification i.e. the conceptual stage is in itself manipulateable, gets manipulated.


Attached File : 109727 211084 9 extract below is on qualification definition etc from a website of a body.doc downloaded: 134 times

Manav Kalia (Arguing my own cases..)     22 September 2011

Thanks @ psuresh. For putting in so much effort in previous post. There is a saying that actions speak louder than words. While it is always good to put your thoughts into forums, at the same time it is important to also translate actions into words. I am trying to put in my two bits into my own cases by fighting them without a lawyer. And I highly appreciate the efforts of the people involved in this and similar forums, as they provide me inspiration to continue my efforts. So a big thank you to all the people involved in this and other forums like this in this site..

AMAR RANU (Legal consultancy)     22 September 2011

Hon'ble exceptions are always there and will be there by virtue of their quality DNA.

Their very existence in the system have kept the ray of hope alive for umpteen suffering comsumers of justice of this country.

But moot question is- how long these endangered species will survive?

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     22 September 2011

Originally posted by :skjadvt-sardarsena
"
first you should objectives clear that you have time. If it is there go on enjoying it since system is not in a hurry.
"

It presumes one is not clear on objectives, that one has lots of time to waste and that one enjoys calling that fellow/s "YOUR LO......." at drop of the hat when one would want to kick that corrupt rascal straight at his face with the centre point being the nose and cause a mark that will keep reminding him/her for the rest of the life.

 

Is this the advice from Mr. "for victims of legal syste"? It hurts, pinches.

 

In many of the cases misuse of professional knowledge by law professionals (judges to lawyers to daftris) compounds injustice. In such cases, justice comprises of two components: 1) Justice for self (i.e. respective group which is fighting the case). 2) Punishment for crime, criminals (Opponents, these new additions).

 

All said and done, crime, criminals, whoever HAVE TO be PUNISHED whoever. Else, you bury a live bomb which will explode at someone else's will and finish you off, a infectious disease that will keep spreading and grow out disproportionately large. Instead, it is better to lend whole hearted support to that victim who is fighting the monster/s IN PERSON using his/her own aegis. It is better to gracefully support such noble souls and give this dual faceted justice: 1) Justice to victim. 2) Punishment to that monster (court, judge, lawyer, whoever, whoever). Is this suggestion-cum-request too much?

 

Well, adding value to threads in LCI's forum could be more a measure of social service for this reason.

 

Let us not forget that India ruled and more so, is to be prepared to rule the world once again as its society practiced/practises tollerance, forebearance, wisdom, spirituality, ingenuity, forethought, courage, honesty, dedication, hard work, loyalty and not through abilities in spying, military, deceit etc. (This thread is discussing professional pros and cons, deceit etc aspects in cases of IN PERSON court cases). India is a land that is acquainted with 'Satya Yuga', which concept is also not known to many in rest of world, but simply trouble us, accuse us and what not. Indians yearn to live honestly, happily, peacefully for ever and ever for hundreds and thousands of years even if we were to wear pure dhotis, sarees instead of facing innumerable complications, fads, halos of MODernITY by wearing those TROUzers, BAGgies, MIDdies, SKIrts that are simply idiotic, but one does not have the courage to say so.

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     22 September 2011

True, a non-law professional cannot do much. But, law professionals can take stern note of it and do justice. You can even recall the professional in question. Pl. find file attachment of my post Dt: Sep 21, 2011; where I have distinctly marked that Bar council member gets to be Judge. For that matter, even the top most judge of the land is a professional first and then the rest of the paraphernalia.

 

Clinton was taken to task by that country. Well, the context is a bit different. But, when it comes to accountability, it is same. Why should we not do that? Is common man's blood so cheap as compared to that criminal judge, OFFisher or whoever, whoever? We need people who will invoke IPC 219 alongside fighting their own legal battles against those deadly criminals in their lives who call themselves to be OFFishials. We need role model verdicts.

Manav Kalia (Arguing my own cases..)     23 September 2011

In terms of rule models and endangered species as long as there is even one judge like s n Dhingra my ray of hope is intact in the legal system. And hope is eternal and can move mountains..

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     23 September 2011

Yes, definitely, there are a couple of exceptionally honest judges. No denying that. Due regards to such exceptionally honest, just Gods. Factually, Kings like Satya Harish Chandra got everything, but gave up everything for the people, for honesty. It is these sort of handful of exceptions that is causing that flicker in the flame. But, by and large CORRUPTION has overtaken.

 

Due regards to absolute honesty whoever, whatever. Society needs all to be honest all the time specially in this sacred profession. No taking chances. What if I/ you/ x, y, z were to be that unfortunate citizen who gets the turn of facing that BASTARD s/he corrupt individual? While a victim who incurs such losses has seen it, it is imperative upon society to understand what has been documented here and get cautioned about this s/he DEVIL in the dark waiting to finish you off for greed (promoSHUN, under hand kick back, simple arrogance, headweight whatever, whatever).

 

Role model verdicts are a MUST. System, society HAS TO BE cleansed. Antivirus mechanisms, detection, destruction, research etc are a must always live at the foreground on 24 x 7 x 365 basis. No taking chances anymore. Transparency, accountability is a must whoever, whatever. 64 years of freedom has become 64 years of permission for unhindered corruption. It is time for ROLE MODEL VERDICT/s and save nation, society, honesty, justice.

Manav Kalia (Arguing my own cases..)     24 September 2011

Actually in follow the advice of Mr sardasena. As in I try to enjoy the system as is going to take a lot of years. Just try to cover all the legal points from my side but when it actually comes down to it, my experience is that right from the clerks to the judges, everyone is incompetent and corrupt. Just try to get a document from the record room of the case, see how much money you have to pay for that, and of you don't want to pay money then see how long it takes. In follow the motto: if you can't beat them them join them.. And enjoy out while it is going on..

Sh. P Suresh (For To By Green Kindness Perpetuity Selfsustainability Always)     24 September 2011

Originally posted by :mirage
"


Just try to get a document from the record room of the case, see how much money you have to pay for that, and of you don't want to pay money then see how long it takes.

In follow the motto: if you can't beat them them join them.. And enjoy out while it is going on..

"

Well said. Just try. Just try. At every rung, right from those daftries, sweepers, PEons .............. right upto jooodges. The levels of immorality rises as one goes about from one to another desk/individual/OFFishial.

 

These BLOODY BASTARD RASCAL corrupt fellows are shamelessly enjoying BLOOD that whoosed out of those sacred sacrifices by those Gods, sacred brothers, fathers who sacrificed their everything in the fight for freedom. The very structure of the system that calls itself governMINT is propituating poison. It is squeezing, suffocating honesty. This cancer should not spread more. These spiny corrupt rascals are drawing more blood. It should be decisively stopped once for all no matter who, what

 

Originally posted by :mirage

"


In follow the motto: if you can't beat them them join them.. And enjoy out while it is going on..

"

The reading of the motto is is also very true. But, that does not solve the problem.

 

These networked corrupt rascals speak, write, read hinglish, indi, freenchie, russu........ in addition to malayalam, punjabi, assami, kannada, tamil, telugu, odissi, urdu, parsi.......... They all look differently, belong to different strata etc. But when it comes to destroying forests, rivers, nature per se; drinking other man's blood etc, all unite and vie upon with innovative ideas to suck up as quickly, as much as possible. Many cannot, will not stomach it. Where is the question of enjoying? That is why we should have an alternative so that we do not fall off from the hillock of corrupt systems suddenly.

 

India is by and large a peace loving society that has strong ethical values. It is imperative to DECIMTE corruption, corrupt rascals whoever, wherever, whatever. We should NOT side with corrupt, corruption any more. We should take a pledge to this effect and be an active, alert force that is on vigil on 24x7x365 perpetually. Technologies enable us get live inputs. All of them should be acted upon in the best interest of society. An end to this mess will be enabled by imbibing strong laws. This inturn will enable a good, kind, wise, honest, zealous, hard working society. There is no bigger happiness than enjoying fruits of one's hard labor proudly, unhindered by this or that spooky, cunning female/male whoever, whatever, wherever.
 

We have specific parameters to test what is what. We would be able to shape our own happiness, destiny from then on. The foremost task would be rid off the corrupt system that is sheltering corruption. There should be no place for corrupt rascals to hide, rest, breed whatever, whatever. Each OFFishial MUST COMPULSORILY respect every individual as a person, as a moving embodiment of God's creation. It may not be wrong for a litigant to expect to be wished good morning/afternoon when one wishes the court. Am I asking for too much? Think of it. Think of it.

 

Some beginning has to be made somewhere. Joodges are NOT lords. Some beginning has to be made to remove that weight out of head weight in that stubborn looooord. Corruption should, will vanish. Justice will win. You, I, he, she, it, they will win even if they had to unfortunately go IN PERSON to wish that x, y, z ....... and then present his/her case; while others who cast that sin on you would call up his/her lawyer to follow up (I don't know what hell). If we don't make that beginning somewhere and sensitise someone, we will be licking our wounds helplessly the way it is happening unnecessarily after having been as honest, as patriotic, as dedicated, as God fearing as is possible. Is there a better test than one agreeing to be on the acid test by presenting his/her ownself IN PERSON? Why should we not expect that the OTHER PERSON/s conduct him/herself decently, justly with oneself?

 

Professional associations should take initiatives to tame their chums who have somehow crowned themselves. I have sounded this professional forum and stirred the collective conscience for the societal cause. I hope professionals will take on from now on and ensure that no one is harrassed, cheated when one invokes his/her right to defend a case in court IN PERSON. No one should use/abet ............ professional tricks, deceit etc to arm twist the unfortunate victim who presents him/herself IN PERSON against all odds.

Prakash Popat (Chartered Accountant.)     07 November 2011

When the procedure of getting Justice Delivered in INDIA,having great practical difficulites,The effected persons should take utmost care while selecting ADVOCATE,Days of Hanky Panky Advocate R over,Advocate Have to respond thier clients by E-mail/Mobile,adding to this if any Advocate ignoring client on any pretext may be professional fees etc,Client should revoke his given POA(Power of Attorne) Forthwith,and as Used Constitute Given rights of Self-defending.

T.R.RAVINDRAN (Telecommn Services)     10 December 2011

Many sugest to have an experienced & honest lawyers.In my experience I am telling that it is difficult find such a person.We are not god to know once heart.Everyone before taking up the case they say so many things.Once you give your case,then you have to forget honesty and sincerity.You have to dance to the tune of the lawyer.As far as possible the case will be prolonged and pocket will be drained.I have paid advance amount to file a suit.Now it is more than four month.He has not yet draft a single page to present my case..Many times I have phoned up and mails sent.Unfortunately my property is in one place and I am settled in one place.Hence I am planning to present my case and there is double opinion.One say Yes and someone says NO.See the SC ruling

"A natural person can of course appear and argue for his case and not for others" Times of India July 14th 2011 under heading In courts you can argue....


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