Unbelievable wedding celebrations!

@Dear Democratic Indian

My view is this;

Its Possible in pakistan not in india.

We love our india and Indian constitution.

Right to Freedom

 Article.19      Protection of certain rights regarding freedom of speech, etc. -

(1)       All citizens shall have the right-

 (b)       To assemble peaceably and without arms;

And those who loved this video go to  pakistan as Indian constitution said,

7.         Rights of citizenship of   certain   migrants to Pakistan. -

Provided that  nothing in this article shall apply to a   person  who, after  having  so migrated to the territory now included in  Pakistan, has returned to the territory of India under a permit for resettlement or  permanent  return issued by or under the authority of any law  and every such person shall for the purposes of clause (b) of article 6 be deemed to have migrated to the territory of India after the nineteenth day of July, 1948. 

And yes,The Right to Keep & Bear Arms was promised to all Indian citizens as a Fundamental Right throughout the freedom struggle and post-independence it was finally enshrined as a Legal Right as per the Arms Act 1959.

But not at a public place.Right?

@ Dear Kushan Vyas

What is wrong with you? Video is a video. If you do not like it no problem. What is the point of getting emotional about it? You are not the only "lover" or "thekedar" of India or its Constitution!

As far as question of Right to Keep and Bear Arms is concerned it is indeed a Fundamental Right under Articles 19 and 21. It is another matter that people have been kept ignorant about this very important Fundamental Right. You may read the following:

1) https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/RKBA-guaranteed-under-Articles-19-and-21-of-Constitution-36011.asp

2) https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/It-is-said-Constitution-is-fountain-of-all-powers-121096.asp

@Dear Democratic Indian

Yes, i know your point infact if you visit my profile you found this;Law protect those who protect it and destroy those who destroy it. 

You said in the thread https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/RKBA-guaranteed-under-Articles-19-and-21-of-Constitution-36011.asp(b) to assemble peaceably and without arms; (It is referring to the Right to Assemble Peaceably and without the Right to Keep and Bear Arms) 

Agree.

It means one has to propect his legal  right by any means .so in that point you are absulutely right.

But in this video ,in a public place this type of gesture i dont agree.

Do you think this public place is it necessary ?

Thats why you labeled this thread as  Unbelievable wedding celebrations!

Dear DI,

I read all your views with keen interest and appreciate many of them.

However with keeping arms,I have a slightly diff. opinion.

In India,people's mentality is such that they misuse each law,if they get the chance to do it,or take advantage of loopholes in the law.

If you grant right to arms to such people,all hell will break lose.People will start taking laws into their hands.

Over trivial issues,people will start using arms to kill and injure each other.

Haven't you seen in metros how people quarrel on roads,blocking all traffic,if the driver of one car overtakes the car of another driver.If we grant such rights,such people,who are fighting on roads verbally,or by giving blows to each other  will now start shooting each other.

Over minor quarrels,people will start killing and injuring with arms.

We are not such a civilized nation as such.Though many ,may disagree,we lack tolerance also.

For making people stronger,we can devise other ways....

But not arms..

@Kushan Vyas

Since when Part III of Constitution has started talking about "legal" rights? All statutary laws/legal rights etc. flow from the Constitution. Just like Passports Act is to regulate fundamental right of foreign travel which is part of Right to Life and Liberty flows from Article 21, similarly Arms Act 1959 is to regulate the Fundamental Right to Keep and Bear Arms flows from Articles 19 and 21. If you have different opinion then please enlighten the forum as to from which Article of Constitution the Arms Act 1959 is flowing from?

Moreover Article 19(1)b is not taking away any right or preventing citizens to assemble with arms. It is merely not taking the burden to provide simultaneous guarantee on both the rights. If State finds the assembly with arms as not unlawful, it does not prosecute the citizens.

About your disagreement about that assemblage in the video, you probably seem to be shocked because of cultural difference. If you see those people in video, they are firing in air, dancing and prancing about without any kind of fear or terror. These kind of celebrations are part and parcel of their culture, including the entire middle east and even many parts of Northern India.

@princess

Well it appears your opinion is not based on facts but on your figment of imagination that all people have no control on themselves and they need to be treated like bunch of sheep. And grounded upon the utopian idea of a world were nobody is armed. Very good idea indeed. But till now it has not been achieved anywhere.

Arms act or no arms act the criminals by their very nature of business always keep themselves armed. You cannot legislate criminals way. Are the insurgents in JK, Northeast or Maoists lining up at licensing authourities to get arms licenses? Rather they have prohibited arms like RPGs, landmines, mortars, machine guns etc. for which licenses are not granted. Are the criminals dependent on licensed firearms to conduct there business in this country?

Any form of violence is facilitated by imbalance of power. The attackers take advantage of gun control as it ensures their security and use their numerical and physical strength to commit violent crime. If people have guns, balance of power and violence under control. Criminal would have to put his life at risk before choosing to commit a violent crime and not vice versa(of putting the life of their victims at risk).

Can you please prove were on earth gun control has been able to reduce crime? On the contrary it has always been advocated by criminals, racist and colonial people as it creates a safe environment for them.

1) England has one of the toughest gun control law in the world, it has highest crime rate in Europe.

2) Australia introduced gun control, crime graph spirraled upwards.

3) 95% of violent crime happens in 5% of states in America that have toughest gun control laws.

4) India has one of the toughest gun control laws in the world. MHA has given an executive order on 31.3.2010 to all states/union territories to not issue arms licenses to citizens except for MPs/MLAs and government officials. No arms licenses are boeing issued to citizens except those mentioned. Is India becoming any more safer? Crime rate is spiralling upwards. The overwhelming number of murders committed in this country are committed using means other than firearms, a fact that is supported by data published by the National Crime Records Bureau, for e.g. in the year 2007, 85.53% of all murders committed were using means and weapons other than firearms (blunt & sharp edged weapons etc.). It is of no consolation to the victims of crimes if they are assaulted or murdered using a firearm or by any other means. On the other hand firearms enable citizens to better defend themselves against criminal aggression, by helping neutralise the numerical and/ or physical advantage of the attacker. It is clear that strict gun control policies do nothing to curb violent crime, a point made even more evident by the statistics mentioned above, the need of the hour is not stricter gun laws, but better policing and enforcement of existing criminal laws combined with more armed law abiding civilians.

5) Check the list of gun control advocates, their publicly stated motives and their real hidden motives behind it, e.g. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. were one of the staunchest gun control supporters. Whole world knows their actual intent and how many innocent people they rounded up, aided by their "gun control" and killed them. Also the following cannot be ignored:

1. Gun control by British in India after 1857 was to suppress any future popular civil uprising, thousands defenseless rounded up and killed e.g. Jallianwala Bag massacre. Millions of law abiding people disarmed by Arms Act 1878 were killed during partition of India by illegal arms in hands of criminals. So called "Gun Control" by Arms Act 1959 helps criminals attack thousands of defenseless men and women to be killed, injured, raped, kidnapped etc. every year in India. Criminals are having a merry time in India due to so called "Gun Control". Entire democracy has been for all practical purposes hijacked by criminal elements. Criminal/politicians are "winning" elections with help of so called "Gun Control" as their henchmen armed with all kinds of illegal weapons are able to terrorize the voters to either vote for them or refrain from voting.

2. 1911, Turkey established gun control, between 1915-17, 1.5 million Armenians rounded up and killed.

3. 1918, after Russian civil uprising of 1917(Russian Revolution) to prevent similar uprisings, Britain introduced gun control in it's colonies of Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It was also introduced in Britain, since many people residing in colonies also had their relatives, friends and sympathizers in Britain. Around the same time, in India the concept of "Prohibited Bore" and "Non Prohibited Bore" was introduced to further tighten the already existing draconian gun control.
4. 1929 USSR established gun control, between 1929-53 over 20 million political opponents rounded up and killed.

5. 1938 Germany established gun control, between 1939-45 over 13 million Jews, gypsies, homos*xuals, mentally ill, union leaders, Catholics and others rounded up and killed.

6. 1935 China established gun control, between 1948-52 over 20 million political opponents rounded up and killed.

7. 1956 Combodia established gun control, 1975-77 over 1 million rounded up and killed.

8. 1970 Uganda established gun control, till 1979 over 300,000 Christians rounded up and killed.

List can be endless about people daily getting killed by gun control because they are not able to excercise the God given fundamental right of self defense daily around the world because of Gun Control.

Even the Apostle of Peace, Mahatma Gandhi, protested for the right of every Indian citizen to keep and bear arms, going so far as to state that, “Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest”. Just think who are the real beneficiaries of gun control, the criminals or law abiding citizens.

‘‘To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.’’— George Mason

‘‘...for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.’’— Alexander Hamilton

Also please note:

1) Coorgs in Karnataka district can keep firearms without license, as they are exempt from provisions of Arms Act . Almost every Coorg house has firearms. And also police respect them and treat them as "equals"! There is no higher crime going on in Coorg district. On the contrary criminals avoid such places as they know how they will be "welcomed" in every house.

2) Before independence, the states of Rajputana were exempt from Arms Act 1878, there was no extra crime reported.

3) Sikhs and Gurkhas keep swords, khukris and various kinds of arms. They are not indulging in extra criminal behaviour.

Then how can it be thought that the rest of Indians will start behaving in a criminal manner sending the crime graph upwards? Are they any way less intelligent or less responsible than any people?

Can you close your eyes to these pictures? https://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-33.html

This is the real picture behind disarming of people https://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-12.html

I have already answered above.However I repeat:

In India,people's mentality is such that they misuse each law,if they get the chance to do it,or take advantage of loopholes in the law.

How come you have so much faith that people in India will have a lot of self control,when provided with arms?

Regarding England and other advanced countries where there are arms control,in those countries legal system is far more advanced.So even if any bad incidents happen,the govt. and the legal system is very fast and responsible.

Is it so in India?

On top of that,you provide people with arms....

Also,as I said earlier,we can devise other ways to strengthen people.So why not talk on those lines?

"In India,people's mentality is such that they misuse each law,if they get the chance to do it,or take advantage of loopholes in the law."

Brilliant! You want to disarm people to take away their inalienable right of self defense by law so that criminals have advantage? Please do not be biased, prejudiced or insulting to Indians. Mentality of people is same everywhere in the world. Are you saying every Indian misuses laws? If yes then how can they not misuse Arms Act 1959? Who is getting benifit of Arms Act 1959? Is the law abiding or the criminals? Please use your common sense. As per records of National Crime Records Bureau more than 98% of violent crimes are committed by illegal arms. It is of no consolation to the victims of crimes if they have been disarmed and are assaulted or murdered using a arms that have status of being "illegal". Now what do say?

‘‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’’— Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

"How come you have so much faith that people in India will have a lot of self control,when provided with arms?"

Brilliant! Because you do not have faith in yourself and Indians that is why you want everyone to be disarmed alongwith yourself so that criminals can have a merry time!

Because I am Indian and have full faith in myself and Indians. If you do not have faith in yourself then please do not arm yourself! Simple. But do not compell everyone to give up their inalienable rights and choices.

Please note:

1) Coorgs in Karnataka district can keep firearms without license, as they are exempt from provisions of Arms Act . Almost every Coorg house has firearms. And also police respect them and treat them as "equals"! There is no higher crime going on in Coorg district. On the contrary criminals avoid such places as they know how they will be "welcomed" in every house.

2) Before independence, the states of Rajputana were exempt from Arms Act 1878, there was no extra crime reported.

3) Sikhs and Gurkhas keep swords, khukris and various kinds of arms. They are not indulging in extra criminal behaviour.

Just as you are free to choose to remain defenceless out of YOUR OWN FREE choice, I too would like to be able to make the CHOICE of whether or nor to arm myself, not have someone else force his/ her/ their choices on me - that is called FREEDOM and without FREEDOM we are just like monkeys in the zoo.

"Regarding England and other advanced countries where there are arms control,in those countries legal system is far more advanced. So even if any bad incidents happen,the govt. and the legal system is very fast and responsible."

Brilliant! Because England has advanced legal system and most strict gun control(so that people can become defenseless), it has the highest crime rate in Europe! Because legal system is slow, corrupt  and tardy in India, you want to disarm people so that they cannot defend themselves!  What a solid logic and reasoning! Please note the fact gun control is NOT about controlling crime. It is about perpetuating crime especially by the State.

1) Who were/are the people who first came up with idea of disarming the entire people?


2) What were/are their publicly stated motives for disarming the people?


3) What were/are their real motives for disarming the people?

"On top of that,you provide people with arms...."

Those bent on doing crime already have all kinds of arms. They are not lining up to get "licenses". False sense of security that laws are taking care of your security is the biggest mistake one can make.

"Also,as I said earlier,we can devise other ways to strengthen people. So why not talk on those lines?"

Yes we can ignore the tuth and facts and talk on fictitous imaginary lines based on escapism from facts. Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote. And among those rights which also  allows all other rights to exist at all is the fundamental Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

"Strenghen" people by diarming them like these "experts"! How can these "experts" be wrong about "strengthening people??? Every generation needs to rediscover the truth:

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Adolf Hitler

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942

“If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.”- Joseph Stalin

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

“I did not join the resistance movement to kill people, to kill the nation. Look at me now. Am I a savage person? My conscience is clear.”- Pol Pot

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. Between 1975 and 19793, 2,035,000 “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

During the short four years of its rule in Cambodia, Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge government murdered over 31 percent of the entire Cambodian popuation.

I will not be surprised if similar things also start happening in India. Attack on peacefull assemblage of Baba Ramdev is just a minuscle example of things to come if people do not wake upto reality.

Thank you dear DI for calling me brilliant repeatedly.

Today when there are talks of disarmament for world peace,you are thinking of making people armed.

In other threads,men accuse women of misusing the "weapon"/pistol/sword called 498A.

Now what will happen if we provide real weapons to people?

I ask you again,CAN YOU THINK OF OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO MAKE PEOPLE STRONG,instead of providing them weapons?

Please answer briefly,and to the point.

Meri aadat nahi hai itna lamba-lamba parne ki.

"Meri aadat nahi hai itna lamba-lamba parne ki."

Well your above statement itself shows that you are not serious about the facts and want to keep on harping your on your ideas based on figment of your imagination. You can carry on without thinking and understanding using logic and reason.

"Today when there are talks of disarmament for world peace"

These are merely "talks" for the sake of  "talks" to disarm only the weaker nations by the stronger nations. No strong nation is disarming itself.

"In other threads,men accuse women of misusing the "weapon"/pistol/sword called 498A."

Anyone can accuse anybody about anything but that does not change the facts. This is besides the point of discussion of this thread and carries no merit for this discussion.

"Now what will happen if we provide real weapons to people?"

Probably you will permanently lock yourself in your house but rest of the world will carry on its business as usual!

"I ask you again,CAN YOU THINK OF OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO MAKE PEOPLE STRONG,instead of providing them weapons?"

You may please follow your "alternatives" when you confront a situation as below so that police can come after the incident is over and click pictures of your dead body.

But please do not mislead others into following your "alternatives", let them follow their inalienable rights:

Crowd watches as goons kill man on street in Coimbatore

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/coimbatore/Crowd-watches-as-goons-kill-man-on-street-in-Coimbatore/articleshow/9210246.cms

"Please answer briefly,and to the point."

Short Answer:

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a basic natural right, it is a basic human right, it is a basic fundamental right. It is guaranteed to all citizens of this country under Articles 19 and 21 of Constitution.

Just as you are free to choose to remain defenceless out of YOUR OWN FREE choice, I too would like to be able to make the CHOICE of whether or nor to arm myself, not have someone else force his/ her/ their choices on me - that is called FREEDOM and without FREEDOM we are just like monkeys in the zoo.

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