PTCL act in favour of purchaser

It is not correct to say that nowhere it  is written that Govt permission is required. 

The following is a report that appeared in the Hindu dated 13.1.2007, which clearly points out that there are circulars, guidelines and orders specifiying that government permission is required.

The Karnataka Government, through a circular dated 03/10/2006 bearing No.RD/41/LGP/2006 issued by the Principal Secretary, Revenue Department, has formulated new guidelines pertaining to obtaining such sale permission under the provisions of the Karnataka Schedule Caste & Schedule Tribes (PTCL) Act, 1978. These guidelines lay down conditions to be complied with by the seller i.e., the original grantee, the prospective buyer and the revenue officials who are conferred the powers to grant such permission.

In cases where five years have not elapsed from the date of grant, permission for selling such grant land will be rejected. In cases where more than five years have elapsed from the date of grant, i.e. say 10, 15, 20 or 25 years, if the government grants permission to alienate such land based on the financial background of a person or family, the grantee should deposit 50 per cent of the sales realisation under Rule 9(1) (i) of the Karnataka Land Grant Rules, 1969.

If the non-alienation period is over, the government, after considering the financial background of such grantee, can give permission to sell the land concerned provided the grantee purchases some other land by investing the sale consideration received.

Pressure to sell

The government has observed that since land prices have gone up in and around Bangalore, real estate agents are luring persons belonging to the SC and ST communities by paying lesser amounts and obtaining power of attorney from them and thereafter selling the land at a higher price to developers. Such agents are forging signatures and fabricating documents to obtain permission for alienation of such land.

In this background, the Tahsildar is sending reports to the Commissioner in which the following serious lapses are found: Sketch of the property without bifurcating such land and without boundaries is being attached; the report does not contain any clarity as to whether the land is granted land and the saguvali chit is not attached to the report (in certain cases, bogus saguvali chit is being attached); the report does not confirm whether the non-alienation period is over, whether five years have expired from the date of grant and the non-alienation period prescribed in the grant order; no spot inspection is being carried out; no verification is being made as to whether the grantee is in possession of such land and whether the grantee is cultivating such land; the financial background of the grantee is not being verified; the fact of intention of the grantee to purchase the alternative land and whether he/she has entered into any agreement for the purchase are also not being verified.

Due to the above reasons, the government has now laid down that the Tahsildar should not send reports without containing the aforesaid information. In case he does, the government will open an enquiry against him.

Wherever permission to sell the grant land has been applied for, the aforesaid information should be obtained and the Tahsildar should send a report to the Assistant Commissioner. The latter should gather information about the financial background of the grantee and send a report to the Deputy Commissioner. The Assistant Commissioner should verify from the grantee if he is aware of the market value of his property; if not, provide the information.

The Assistant Commissioner should also verify who is purchasing the land and for what and on what basis. He shoud verify and confirm that the Tahsildar has not violated the conditions in making his report and thereafter should send the appropriate report to the Government through the Deputy Commissioner.

Thanks for your promt reply Mr R Ramchandran,

1. The land was purchased in 1995 after completion of probhition period means much before the Govt Circular dated 03/10/2006 bearing No.RD/41/LGP/2006 issued by the Principal Secretary, Revenue Department.
2. During purchase the deal was cristal clear and very well under the knowledge of Tehsildar, assistant Commissioner's knowledge. The documents are sign by these athorities from time to time. Durng possesion of land even I applied to Tehsildar sending copy to Assistant commission for the demarcation of newly purchased land showing exactly in there record for the allotment of land. The complete documents were transfered by these authorities in my name then how can they can do such acts when there is restriction during that time. That means the circular came in 2006 should be applicable to onward cases not to apply on my case.
3. Now taking excuses that may be SC/ST people are cheated by agents or pirchaser is lame excuse in front of the facts prevailing at that time.
4. I put my whole life earning to establish myself but now such excuses and undue advantages given to SC/ST also encouraging them to demand/ extract more money from the purchaser put me on road. The oroginal owner send his son to claim the land or give more money which I can not efford. These people should be also punished for selling illigaly the land and purchase if submitt all ligal govt supplid documents then should be compansated with the present market value of the land.
5. Govt must realise and write clearly on Sagwari chit "the land belong to SC/ST and non transferable in any circustances. Lift up power from Registrar to register this land. Lift up power to transfer the land in purchaser's name from Tehsildar. Todays SC/ST are benifitted and taking full advantages of such type of symphathatic protection and excuses, becoming more criminal minded rather than to join the main stream of society.
6. Being a citizen of India we are all equal and having equal rights to live under one law and should not be catagorise on cast/tribe etc basis. PTCL is a very weak law and should not manupulate the Sagrwari chit condition to sell the land after 15 years. Please read carefuly and see by yourself understand? How one can dream that he/she has to obtain the permission from Govt to purcahse while period is over? This is complete responsibility to the authorities dealing the transfer of land etc.
   

Please answer the bove two points, helping me to safe my property. I am desperitly looking for  true justice if it prevail under Indian law.

Thanks,

Ikram

I think you better approach the High Court for declaration of Title stating the facts you have stated here.

Thanks Mr Ranganathan for your kind reply advsing to approach High court.

Could you please explain what is "Declaration of Title" ? I am very much intrested to expose the facts and harrasment created in the name of SC/ST and given undue advantages in the name of law.

Awaiting your reply.

with best regards.

Ikram Pasha

Dear Mr Ranganathan,

I want to discuss my case personaly with you. Please send me your e-mail ID and contact number. If you are in Bnaglore, then please send me your office dress.

Thanks,

Ikram,

pashaikram@yahoo.com

PTCL  ACT (the Karnataka scheduled caste and scheduled tribes (prohibition of transfer of certain land) Act, 1978 – whether SC/ST peopl are taking revenge on us?

“Ignorance of law is not an excuse”

No one can take back these words or so…  Public would have not heard that, when it comes to PTCL. We are all aware in general, that once the property is purchased for a valuable consideration the vendor cannot ask to return the property as per Indian contract act.

Many of us are not aware that now SC/ST people are selling their properties for a valuable consideration and filing appeal to restore that land once they are done with their sale.

If we need to verify the grant rules, we need to go back and check the Mysore land revenue code, 1888 to till date amendments. Judgments on this rules say that you should not go as per the grant certificate (land revenue grant rules prevails over grant certificate).

As per the land grant rules, there is a prohibition forever and it varies from 10 to 20 years for each year’s amendment, whether our government is expecting us as a public to be aware about this, when many advocates are not even aware about the complete land grant rules, How the public can be aware about this?

I heard many grantees are entering into sale agreement and simultaneously asking their advocate to prepare appeal for restoration of the grant; poor public is losing their hard earned money. In some cases after grantees sell their land they wait for house to come up, so they can get their land along with house.

In one of our case, as per the grant, the land has been sold after 15 years by the depressed class (SC/ST) for valid consideration in the year 1972 i.e after expiry of the 15 years (land was granted in 1939). After selling, they have filed appeal for restoration in the year 1979 as per PTCL but they lost the case in front of Assistant Commissioner on the ground that alienation has happened after 15 years.

After 24 years their grand children had filed writ petition in the high court and high court has condoned the delay of filing appeal and granted order in favor of grantee because even though the land has granted with a condition of 15 years of non-alienation period, the actual non-alienation is forever.

Please note that this appeal is filed after commissioner has granted permission for converting land usage from agriculture land to non agriculture land, also during the proceedings period 60 to 70 people have bought plots in this layout and houses were built with BBMP plan approvals. “People are paying the tax and betterment charges for the land under litigation” and the government is not bothered to inform them during the registration time or at the time of collecting the tax, They are just bothered about the money or income they get.

“How can government provide basic facilities (Electricity, Sanitation, Good Roads etc.,) for the land under litigation and collect the taxes”?

“Government could have intimated the people at any point, rather than put a person in a situation like Hell.”

Several advocates who verified the document, working for different banks could not get  a clue regarding the litigation. Once the bank has approved the loan, many people have bought houses in this layout through housing loan scheme

“When Advocates could not find the difference between the land under litigation, How can you expect a common man to do so”? How ignorance of law is not excuse can be applied here?

Now SC/ST people are well educated and few of them are trying to cheat others and PTCL law is helping them to do this.

In the above case 60 to 70 people, who availed housing loan has to find rented houses and pay the  housing loan without property, strictly speaking we will be working as a bonded labours for next 20 years or more (just for dreaming to have a property of our own).

“Rent (For staying) + House loan (For not staying) – How can a common man bear both?? When one is difficult to bear ”.

“How sad to know that there is an injustice within the boundary of law”

Govt has recently granted 2 acres of land to one of the SC/ST family with in the BBMP limits for agriculture purpose, where one square foot cost is rs.3500/- per sft and there are houses surrounded by.

very good, 24 crores to 30 crores woth of land to one family. whil we are struggling to save our 30*40 site house which we took it for loan.

Good, we are going in the right direction, god has to save our country.

I agree with Mr Ramesh N. who after so long of my effort commented and open the facts going on with so called SC and ST people.

They are no more depressed class and now enjoying full power provided in the name of SC/ST.

What kind of law it is which depriving the facts in the name of INOCENCY of particular sect of Indian population.

Mr Ramesh please help me send the judgment where they have taken in purchaser as he purchased the land after the completion of 15 years alienation period. Beside that still I can see hundred of cases daily coming in the court filing with the same excuses claiming as the property inherited by there ancestors and they were SC/ST.

Why not court punishes those who has transfer legally all the documents while they were aware that the land belong to SC/ST. They are the one who worked under Govt and due to there negligence the purchaser is suffering. If the transaction is wrong then compensate the purchaser and do not throw him on road, forcing him to commit suicide as he lost all is hard earned money invested for the future of his family.

Why we presume now after more than 60 years that still the SC/ST people belong to weaker section when they fail to prevail the opportunity given them for 60 years(more than as agreed by Govt of India for 50 years).

You keep on given them free food/shelter in teh name of SC/ST and they will never come out to become self sufficient.

Fact is that every politician uses theme to gain there vote.

No one can realise the pain and sufferings of those who has been cheated by SC/ST those who are now joined the land grabbers, mafias etc in getting excuses to claim the land which already peacefully with full willingness sold out to the purchaser.

GOD bless India and make India FREE FROM CASTISM/

Dear Ramesh N,

You are not aware of deep routed planning created by landgrappers. The present policy is these group convince/catch hold some SC/ST people and alongwith powerful people get the land alloted to them. They know the price in that area is Rs 3500/- Once it is alloted to them they share the loot and become crorpathi within one night. Everybody is happy as they proove that they are with SC/ST people and DOING THERE BEST TO UPLIFT THE POOR SC/ST PEOPLE. God bless INDIA.

Judiciary only look for laws without finding out the reality on ground. As I say if the land is tranfered from SC/ST people then why they do not stop immidiatelly an action and DO NOT TRANSFER THE LAND ON REVENEW RECORDS. WHY NOT THEY WRIGT THAT THIS LAND IS GOVT ALLOTED AND CAN NOT BE TREANFFERED IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WITHOUT GOVT APPROVAL.

WHY? Because few peopel are in mafia having deep routed links with all the system.

JAGOO INDIA

Hi Sir,

I am Manash here. I want to purchase a land from Urban Habitat. IT is a BMRDA approved layout in Kamanahali-chikanahali village area near Verthur. All the amenities are there from the builder like swerage, water, electriciti, rain water harvesting, swerage treatment plant etc.

Que 1. Whether I will get A khata for such property? I came to know some of my friends that this is panchayat area, so the property as a whole is A khata, i mean layout. But you will get B khata for your land. Please can you help here?

Que 2. I asked PTCL endorsement to the developer. They gave it which is signed by assistant commisioner Anekal. Whether the assistant commissioner has authority or entittled person to give PTCL endorsement or the Tahasiladar ? Also the PTCL doc says that there is no st/st case involvement in such survey no. it didn't mention about any if it is a granted land.

The website of urban habitat is 

urbanhabitat.in.

All the documents are also available there.

Please help me here.

Thanks,

Manash

Hi Sir,

I am Manash here. I want to purchase a land from Urban Habitat. IT is a BMRDA approved layout in Kamanahali-chikanahali village area near Verthur. All the amenities are there from the builder like swerage, water, electriciti, rain water harvesting, swerage treatment plant etc.

Que 1. Whether I will get A khata for such property? I came to know some of my friends that this is panchayat area, so the property as a whole is A khata, i mean layout. But you will get B khata for your land. Please can you help here?

Que 2. I asked PTCL endorsement to the developer. They gave it which is signed by assistant commisioner Anekal. Whether the assistant commissioner has authority or entittled person to give PTCL endorsement or the Tahasiladar ? Also the PTCL doc says that there is no st/st case involvement in such survey no. it didn't mention about any if it is a granted land.

I have added their doc here. Please help.

The website of urban habitat is 

urbanhabitat.in.

All the documents are also available there.

Please help me here.

Thanks,

Manash

As per my personal experiences, you can not purcahse any land connected even HIS FORFATHERS and even after obtaining permission from authorities. In usual practice these type of permission letters are generated through some PERSONAL FAVOURS etc.

Per mission means that any SC/ST person when HE?SHE wants to sell the land must get the permission at that time ONLY. Once the land was sold out than even if AMBEDKAR say the permission granted is totaly illigal OR work as blackmailing point after your investment in devaloping of this land.

Most of the cases running is where the land was sold out after completion of 15 YEARS of granting land, which is according to SUPREME COURT ruling will not attract PTCL act. But our system still allow to have symphatic attitudes towards so called depressed people and give them chance TO PLAY WITH CITIZENS OF INDIA ,Our judaciary is so imnnocent that they accept such nasty excuses and keeping aside the persons/govt officials, who are responsible helping the depeessed people to sell the land and than again they called them back to file such type of cooked stories and demand/threaten the buyer to return the land to the ORIGINAL granttee and never bother that the land was ligally transfered by the same authorities when it was purcahsed the land by buyer. Today these depressed class is so strong that even Govt. machinery affarid from there DHARNAS, IMMIDIATE TRANSFER ORDERS, and SUSPENSION if they try to do the REAL JUSTICE ON THE BASIS OF FACTS.

My sincere advise if you want to keep your hard earn money and future of your children then DO NOT PUT HAND IN ANY SUCH LANDS AND LET THE COUNTRY SUFFER FOR AGGRICULE AND URBAN DEVALOPMENT.

My dear friend I live whole life in deep desert and earn my money to invest in India to help the future of my children and help the GOVT. when INDIA was facing real economic crises by sending hard currency. And return my all ligal documents of purcahse of this land involving approvals/acceptance and tranfering of katas in my name by TEHSILDAR, ASSISTANT COMMISSION, SUB REGISTRAR,VILLAGE ACCOUNTANT AND WHOLE AUTHORISED GOVT PERSONS I have landed in cases after15 years of purcahse and when ever try to talk to the authorities, insulted and not ready to lisen the facts and keep on saying only one sentence "THE LAND YOU HAVE PURCHASED ALLOTED TO SCHEDULE CAST AND YOU HAVE NOT TAKEN PERMISSION AT THE TIME OF PURCAHSE" If I say you (the sitting officer" has tranfered this land to me then he says "MAY BE HE HAS FAVOURED YOU" thank to our DEMOCRACY, REVENEW  AND JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

  sincerly your,

JAGOOO INDIA

Dear sir,
We have purchased 7 acre of land which was granted to one of shivappa kallappa naikmakkal in the year 1966 with a condition of non-alienation of the land for a period of 15 years. The grantee alienated the land during the year 1982 and 1985.which is after completion of 15 year.we is the 3rd purchaser of the land.
The grantee filed a case with assistant commissioner dharwad (Karnataka),during the year 2005 stating that he belongs to HINDU VALMIKI caste which has been classified as scheduled tribe community there by lending to violation of clause 4(2) of the PTCL act with contention of resumption of land back to original grantee.
The assistant commissioner dharwad heard the case and rejected the petition standing that the caste of the grantee has been classified as scheduled tribe community W.E.F 19/04/1991.the grantee filed and appeal to deputy commissioner dharwad during the year 2006-07 .the D.C dharwd has heard the case and upheld the judgment of AC dharwad.
The grantee again preferred an writ petition to the High court of Karnataka during 2009 the court had heard the case and again remanded back to the case to the DC dharwad for hearing and for passing appropriate order. Now the case has been called for hearing by the DC on 25/02/2014.
In regards to the judgment issued by the high court single and double bench the following points have been brought to perusal the constitution scheduled tribe order 1950 has been issued as per the provision of article 342 of constitution classifying the community under ST and several amendments have been issued to the presidential notification 1950 by adding caste of person inserted to the ST list w.e.f 19/04/1991 “Naik,Nayak,Beda,Bedar &valmiki” (constitution 2nd amendment 1991 copy and bill passed by Lok saba copy enclosed ) 
As states above caste every Amendments to presidential notification of 1950. Thre is a specific Effective date, month & year on which the caste for to be considered as ST.
In such circumstances the judgments have been issued by the Hon’ble judges considering the caste added to the ST with “Retrospective effect” with revert back to the presidential notification 1950. 
Without considering the effect dates,month,&year of amendments by issue of judgments considering as Retrospective effect of 1950, injustice has been caused to the purchaser of the land there by resumption of purchaser land back to original grantee. 
In view of the above the necessary classification requires on the following points 

1) Whether the constitution scheduled tribe all amendments & modification amendments are Retrospective or prospective?
2) On what bases the judgments have issued considering the constitution amendments to revert back to presidential notification 1950?
3) If the all amendments are Retrospective effect for this any of the notification issued in this regards? 
Dear sir kindly as soon as possible necessary legal advice on the above the doubts may please I communicated.
We are waiting for kind advice 


Thanking you sir

Shivanand m desai 
9986980722

Dear All Who read this subject:

I read in detail your case and very much upset as the issue is not weather the allottee is Schedule Cast OR Schedule Tribe. Today due to the this PTCL act which is totally against the constitutional rights of citizen of India is on misuse openly and become a business for landgrappers to destroy and over power the Govt. machinery.

I can watch the drama and in front of Govt. authorities Schedule cast are filing cases under PTCL and not even know what exactly written in there petition through mafia guidance get there land back and before getting they sell to another party. The whole government system is running in that area with corruption. They by pass all legal methods formulated to protect the rights of a citizen.

While buying a property nobody goes in such details and fooled around by the same authorities who are now sitting as JUDGE and taking decision based on one petty excuse that you have not taken permission from "GOVERNAMENT".

It is not only ridicules but required to be punishable along with the purchaser as he has not done this mistake alone and without the help of those corrupt officers who has transferred the property in his name without bothering to see all such legal aspects.

Once Supreme Court came forward stating that since on allotment letter is having and limitation of 15 years, any land sold out after 15 years will NOT ATTRACT PTCL ACT.

After that mafia acted and convince Govt. machinery to use article 4(2) to grip the land. If courts study in detail they will find out how they are destroying the life of purchaser. And since Govt revenue is transferring the land they should be also punished to pay SOME compensation to the purchaser for there fault. In whole world the compensation always granted if such things are raised. But in India the dirty politics, religion, cast involve and judgments are passed day and night protecting Govt faults.

My experience says that all this even if you prove that the seller is BAMIKY etc will not effect unless DC have instructions to accept you plea from top. Do not fight case on legal basis just consult some mafia and they will settle down your case outside of judicial boundaries.

GOD bless India and wake them up. I hope one day Govt will investigate and realize what exactly going on in the name of Schedule Cast. I haves en a case where the buyer approach to High Court and could not get the stay for 90 days period due to the holidays, judge is not available, case did not turn up due to shortage of time etc. And on other side AC has passed an order to handover the land BY FORCE to allottee without even have judicial power to do so. HOW? mafia play better game than purchaser. All this things are going on under the protective umbrella from High Court and Supreme Court. Who will come forward to find out all these facts? Today Lawyers afraid to raise these type issues as they have to deal with the Govt. machinery day and night to get some favor from them.

Do not waste your time and money to keep on going with tension created by Govt. Machinery. Some time they will listen and say only one word "you have not taken permission to purchase land" while as per rule the seller should take permission. If it is true then why they do not punish the seller?

If anybody has answer to these entire flaws in system and professional then do your duty to safe guard the society from these type of nasty acts.

The time will what Govt has achieved by introducing this act.

Jaggo India