You are so right and there's so much sincerity in your views.

There are certain truths and principles like 2+2 = 4. But when we try to ignore these principles and try to make 2+2 = 5 then problem starts. Corruption is a kind of tyrany being heaped on people. Do we find any connection with the following: "Both the oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms." - Aristotle

@Democratic Indian: do you think bearing firearms will solve all problems in life lol

4 uma

 

keeping firearms loaded with live ammo will solve some problems.
 

Uma I have never said that bearing firearms by people will solve "all problems". But it will certainly change the quality of relationship between the State and citizens. The State certainly cannot take armed citizens for granted. Please note that a State that arms itself and disarms its population is the master and the people are its servants. Armed citizenry is the ultimate warrant that the government is not the master but the servant of people.


Just ask yourself the following questions and try to find answers:

1) Who were/are the people who first came up with idea of disarming the entire people?


2) What were/are their publicly stated motives for disarming the people?


3) What were/are their real motives for disarming the people?


Does the following picture say something to you? Do you find any relation with the arms in their hands and the tyranny of coruption going on in their area? These women are of Gulabi Gang. Before they picked up arms(lathis) they were a abused lot by the corrupt in the society.

 
Grains meant for them did not reach ration shops but were sold by the corrupt. Mentally corrupted husbands used to beat them. Government officials refused to help them. After these ladies gave up the victim mindset and they thrashed the corrupt, the corrupt became straight and the ration shops in the area had grains for the poor. Earlier Police did not register FIRs or investigate crime. After the SHO and policemen were thrashed by them, FIRs began to be registered instantly and cases investigated honestly.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7068875.stm

https://www.gulabigang.org/en/index.html

Please read this https://www.tehelka.com/story_main50.asp?filename=Ne250611maya.asp

Now can you tell why Police dared to kidnap, rape and kill the young girl? Why are the government officials shamelessly trying to protect the accused? The basic answer is they have no fear of people. Why they have no fear of people? You provide the answer.

@Democratic Indian - they have no fear of people because law enforcement is lax. arming citizens is no excuse for lax enforcement. citizens cannot take the law in their own hands

Uma I had asked you three questions please let me know what are your answers to those questions.

I am not surprised why victim mindset has been so deeply engrained into the mindset of many people, because we have been slaves for far too long and we do not even know how to think like rulers.

As far as question of law enforcement is concerned, law enforcement is not going to happen by some angels landing from the sky and doing a miracle. You are totally and fundamentally wrong when you say that citizens have "no excuse" for law enforcement. Effectively what you are saying is that life of citizens is not worth for them to defend, they should always be at the mercy of rulers. Please note: there are two kinds of law enforcement machineries. Law enforcement machinery of State and law enforcement machinery in individual capacity by citizens. Do you know that citizens are also empowered to arrest criminals and hand them over to police? Do you know when citizens act under Sections 96 to 106 IPC they are doing NOTHING BUT ENFORCING THE LAW. Police is also given arms for nothing but enforcing this law of self defence ONLY. There is no reason why citizens should not be armed just like police. Here they have a choice to arm themselves to protect themselves or be at mercy of "guardian angels" called police. But under no circumstances some ignorant people have any right to force their will upon those citizens who want to arm themselves to protect themselves and those around themselves.

Police are not guardian angels nor is the government. This is what happens when citizens think like you believe that they have to be helpless like sheep and be dependent on "guardian angels", read the judgment of Supreme Court cited by Adv. Ravikant Soni at https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Police-uses-third-degree--200866.asp

Effectively what you are saying is that:

As per your logic if policemen take on the role of criminals by conducting murders, rapes, kidnappings or 3rd degree tortures, the victims have no inalienable right to retaliate as a matter of self defense to save themselves from being subjected to these criminal acts. Niether their near and dear ones or the public has any right to come to the immediate rescue of the victims. Let the crime take place to its completeness and instead all should be mute spectators. Only after the fact of crime has taken place, all kinds of noise should be made. In legal language you are saying the purpose of law itself(Sections 96 to 106 IPC which allow the citizens to take law in their own hands under certain conditions, which is corrolary to Right to Life) is meaningless!


‘‘The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.’’— Saint George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803


‘‘...for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.’’— Alexander Hamilton


‘‘Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government’s purposes are beneficial ... the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding’’ — U. S. Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1928

@democratic indian: are you saying that it's near impossible to get a license for a firearm in India?

@democratic indian: is there a specific incident in your personal life that made you so passionate about carrying guns?

 

Uma it appears you have not understood what I am trying to convey and instead of going to the bottom of the issue to find answers to these questions you seem to be just skimming the surface:

 

1) Who were/are the people who first came up with idea of disarming the entire people?


2) What were/are their publicly stated motives for disarming the people?


3) What were/are their real motives for disarming the people?

 

I am talking about usefulness of forests to sustain life on our planet, you are talking about usefulness of the garden in your house. I am talking about importance of RKBA in defining the relation between the State and the freedom of people, you are talking about "licenses" for few individuals.

 

I am talking about the psyche of undemocratic people, you are trying to probe my psyche. In order to understand the importance of anything it is not always neccessary to "experience" it personally when the entire world has experienced it all through the ages. Even Aristotle experienced it and lamented that both the oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of arms. Is there any need to have a "personal" experience to come to this conclusion? Are we all not experiencing the same truth(of course under the cover of democracy) Aristotle experienced thousands of years ago? How about exploring the psyche of the following people and those who follow their ideas?

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." --Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942

 

Nazi Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

“If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.”- Joseph Stalin

 

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. By 1987 that figure had risen to 61,911,000.

“All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”- Mao Tze Tung, Nov 6 1938

 

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952 10,076,000 political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated in Kuomintang China, and by 1987 another 35,236,000 exterminations were carried out under the Communists.

“I did not join the resistance movement to kill people, to kill the nation. Look at me now. Am I a savage person? My conscience is clear.”- Pol Pot

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. Between 1975 and 19793, 2,035,000 “educated” people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

 

During the short four years of its rule in Cambodia, Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge government murdered over 31 percent of the entire Cambodian popuation.

“Armas para que? (“Guns, for what?”)” A response by Castro to Cuban citizens who said the people might need to keep their guns, after Castro announced strict gun control in Cuba.

 

All undemocratic tyrants follow the pattern to create banana republics(our country is no exception) everywhere:

 

-Control the media to brainwash the public

-Disarm the populace

-Indoctrinate the children in public schools

-Discredit any opposition

-Promise to share the wealth

-Find others to blame for the problems, direct negative attention away from self. Find a scapegoat for the peoples anger.

-Offer them hope and change.

 

Above works every time to fool the people. Don't forgot Lenin, Stalin, Robert Mugabee, Jawaharlal, Indira, Congress etc. No wonder the same thing is happening today in our country!