Dispute:date of confirmation in service and welfare benefits

This is an interesting thread. Valuable advice of learned experts/members is sought.

You have posted that:

“The concerned department shall deduct the premium in respect of employee as per his eligile category even if the enrolment form is not submitted by him.”

Did the company deduct the premium from 01.06.2012?

If yes the lapse is serious.

The question arises who is responsible to initiate the process to conduct appraisal for confirmation of service, and who is final authority to pass the appraisal and send the copies to concerned dept. which shall finally issue order of confirmation of service and then who shall circulate to other concerned personnel who shall include name in for membership of group Mediclaim Policy??????

“I say that the service handbook says regarding the mediclaim benefit as 'Date of confirmation" and nothing else’

Your stand seems to be correct.

Who is to be accused and who is to be show caused?

The employee needs to shift from verbal :“telling and saying’ mode to written mode and should carefully structured representation to good offices of appointing authority, Chairman etc…..

-----“Orgnst says your date of confirmation is date of receipt of confirmation letter and not the date of confirmation “

Who has stated it and what is the wisdom supported by service conditions/rules in this case?

-------‘My mother was ill and expired and was hospitalised thrice from july to sept 2012.’

Did you submit the requisite intimation each time in writing for passing the order to allow cashless/indoor treatment, and did the company decline?

Did you submit the bills on receipt of order of confirmation and did the company decline the entitlement in writing?

Has the company paid the arrears in salary etc w.e.f. 01.06.2012?

Has it deducted the difference in employee’s contribution for PF etc from 01.06.2012?

Sir Kumar thanks for your kind reply.

1) Company did not deduct the premium.

2) Appraisal is conducted by manager of office of posting. Above him is the DGM of region who confirms. Final authority is General Manager, personnel at Head office. GM sends the confirmation order to posting office via regional office.

Name in mediclaim policy is to included at office level personel dept. But as confirmation was not rcvd until 30.10.2012, name was not includd. But neithr office, nor regional office nor HO personel dept took in consideraion of passing on due benefit to concerned employees on time.

3) Accused may be a) Office - for not putting up the matter of transferring benefits to employee after expiry of probation period. b) region office - same reason as above plus not putting up the matter with Head office for lapse against Service Handbook. 3) Headoffice - knowingly denying the benfits.

4) Orgnst says your date of confirmation is date of receipt of confirmation letter and not the date of confirmation “

Who has stated it and what is the wisdom supported by service conditions/rules in this case? -

I had made a written representation and this the reply of Manger, Personel, Regional office. The letter says medicalim benefit cannot b extended from 01.06.2012.

I had asked about what is my date of eligibility to join the scheme. They didnot gave a specific date, but said it isnot from 01.06.2012 as put forth by me.

5) Did not submit any bill nor intimated because as confirmation was delayed. The whole issue aroused because the confirmation order stated date of confirmation as 01.06.2012.

6) Each and every contirbution hasbeen deducted from salary.

You have posted that:

------““The letter says medicalim benefit cannot b extended from 01.06.2012.” 

“They didnot gave a specific date, but said it isnot from 01.06.2012 as put forth by me.”

“Orgnst says your date of confirmation is date of receipt of confirmation letter”

Who has said that? Is it stated in writing?  Why such a misleading statement is being made.

The Manager-Personnel has tried to dump the matter forever, and subdue you from escalating it further.

You may show the representation submitted by you and reply to your lawyer.

Probably it could be rephrased.

It is almost certain that company would claim that the Mediclain benefit had to come from the Group Mediclaim policy ( and may add that it is not mandatory to provide the policy)  and there is no provision that under any circumstances the company shall foot the bill from its own resources.

The management and administrators are wary of such decisions in favor of employees becoming precedence. If it happens these good for nothing arm chair managers shall be penalized everyday. They don’t want to reform.

What are the mediclaim benefits entitled to you during probation, after confirmation ( ie.e. regular employees) as per offer letter/appointment letter/standing orders/HR policy etc…..?

You may have to look into standing orders/service rules/employee rule book/appointment letter, service agreement…………….previous precedence’s, decisions by court of law etc….

The employee’s union, company lawyers, lawyer’s who are well versed with rules and happenings with your company can give you inputs.

-------The confirmation in services letter was received on 30.10.2012

What is the date on letter of confirmation?

Let us assume it was 01.06.2012 then it has to be construed that it was lying on the desk/ in the drawers of …………….Mr/Ms…………

Thus the administrators were sleeping in the dark cool chamber of the administrative authorities.

Their action is violative of code of conduct if any set for the administrators and rights of employee: service benefits that come with service.

The good offices should iron out the creases.

“There cannot' further be any doubt that in a case where two interpretations are possible, the Court should avoid an interpretation which would lead to hardship.”

Good offices/Appellate Authority should also adopt this approach and avoid the burden of litigation that may befall on company and employee.

------“ Appraisal is conducted by manager of office of posting. “

Did he conduct the appraisal in your presence and did you sign it? On which date it was conducted? Was any copy provided to you?

What is the procedure for confirmation, as per service rules/standing orders/HR manual etc? Does it explain the procedure?

The point is that the management is duty bound and will have to decide in time and communicate to employee the probation period has been extended or service has been confirmed. If the administrators forgot to discharge their duties the employee should not be penalized for it.

------“I have no issue with th delay in giving of the confirmation letter. ‘

You must not state so in writing, as you have issues.

------“Although i was confirmed from 01.06.2012 company is not giving retrospective benefits.”     “6) Each and every contirbution hasbeen deducted from salary.’

Thus confirmation of service has been effected with retrospective effect.

Is there any change in Nature of duties once the employee is made regular after confirmation and di the company start to extract work of regular employee from due date of confirmation although it supplied letter of confirmation after 5 months? 

-------Shall the Insurance Company agree to include the name in policy from back date?

The answer seems to be NO.

You have the evidence that Confirmation of service has been effected with retrospective effect

So if the insurance company shall not foot the bill, who shall have to?

The good offices should fix the responsibility and they can if they want to.

Thus the good offices should demonstrate that they intend to do justice and avoid injustice.

If company has deducted the premium from your salary is it on pro rated basis or entire year premium has been deducted?

-------“5) Did not submit any bill nor intimated because as confirmation was delayed. ‘

Try by submitting the bills (Do not forget to obtain the acknowledgment on copy of each bill. It shall be worth to get each copy notary attested as well”

------“The offer later states: 1) your appointment for xyz post on probation for a period of one year from the date of reporting. The probation oeriod may b extended by a further period.”

Here has the company mentioned further period of……………………how many days/months/years?

If the company has not mentioned in T&C for probation that the probation would be deemed as having been extended till the confirmation letter is issued, only then probation can be deemed to have been extended. However it can not be extended for indefinite period.

The letter termed offer letter by you is offer letter or appointment letter?

Does this PSU have its certified standing orders/service rules? Obtain a copy along with copy of job advertisement and go thru clauses on process and procedure of appointment.

What is the probation period stated in standing orders? Is there any provision for engaging personnel thru service agreement?

There are Supreme Court judgments confirming that, the Employee cannot be deemed to be a Confirmed employee at the end of the probation period unless the terms of condition state it specifically.

In your case the company can not state that it was convinced that service can not be confirmed at the end of probation period or 1/2/3/4/5 month after the due date as the probation period has not been extended, and the confirmation of service is with retrospective effect.

Then what was it doing for these 5 months after due date of confirmation?

Due to incompetence of administrators the process of appraisal and final decision on confirmation and issuance of letter of confirmation was delayed!!!!!!!!!!

“Service agreement states: 1)....the company on a probation for period of one year whihc may be extended by a further period of six months...”

As per wording in service agreement, the probation period can not be extended for more than 6 months. The probation period has not been extended.

But from the due date of confirmation the employee was made to believe that his services are not confirmed.

Does the service agreement supersede offer letter/appointment letter? You may go thru the language in service agreement.

Another question arises that what shall/should prevail………..offer letter or appointment letter or service agreement or standing orders/service rules?

The entitlements stated in standing orders can not be negated to employee.

You may submit a carefully structured representation to good offices of appointing authority, Chairman, MD, Company Secretary. You may add that the apathy has caused you Economic Distress, financial loss, irreparable loss one precious human life, and company or the personnel responsible be made to pay the bills.

Let us assume that if the company had deducted the premium but forgot to send the name to Insurance Company who would be made to foot the bill???

It shall be appropriate to show all documents to a competent and experienced labor consultant/service lawyer, give inputs in person, understand the merits and proceed under expert advice of your lawyer.

Valuable advice of learned experts/members is sought.

Originally posted by : Kumar Doab
	------““The letter says medicalim benefit cannot b extended from 01.06.2012.”  “They didnot gave a specific date, but said it isnot from 01.06.2012 as put forth by me.” “Orgnst says your date of confirmation is date of receipt of confirmation letter” Who has said that? Is it stated in writing?  Why such a misleading statement is being made. Ans: The reply is given to my representation letter by Manager, Prsnl, Regional office. It is stated in writing addressed to my office manager.   It is almost certain that company would claim that the Mediclain benefit had to come from the Group Mediclaim policy ( and may add that it is not mandatory to provide the policy)  - Sir it is mandatory to provide the policy from the first day of month susequnt to date of confirmation.   What are the mediclaim benefits entitled to you during probation, after confirmation ( ie.e. regular employees) as per offer letter/appointment letter/standing orders/HR policy etc…..?- Sir, the medical benefits are not provided during probation. But we become eligible from first day of month subsequent to date of confirmation. The provision comes from service handbook. -------The confirmation in services letter was received on 30.10.2012 What is the date on letter of confirmation? - Sir the date of issue of letter is 17.10.2012. But the date of confirmation is 01.06.2012. “There cannot' further be any doubt that in a case where two interpretations are possible, the Court should avoid an interpretation which would lead to hardship.” - Sir, the lax behaviour has caused me tremendous hardship and i am going to approach Civil Courts for intrpreting the documnets of my organisation after exhausting inhouse grievance redressal forum. ------“ Appraisal is conducted by manager of office of posting. “ Did he conduct the appraisal in your presence and did you sign it? On which date it was conducted? Was any copy provided to you? - No for all questions. It was conducted in May 2012. What is the procedure for confirmation, as per service rules/standing orders/HR manual etc? Does it explain the procedure? - If conduct performance of probationer is found satisfactory, he is confirmed after completeion of 1 year of probation from date of joining. If performance not satisfactory, it MAY be extended by 6 months. After that 6 months company has to either Expel the employee or Confirm in service. Here in my case the status (whether confirmed/extended probation/expel) was not know until the rceipt of confirmation order. The point is that the management is duty bound and will have to decide in time and communicate to employee the probation period has been extended or service has been confirmed. If the administrators forgot to discharge their duties the employee should not be penalized for it. ------“Although i was confirmed from 01.06.2012 company is not giving retrospective benefits.”     “6) Each and every contirbution hasbeen deducted from salary.’ Thus confirmation of service has been effected with retrospective effect. Is there any change in Nature of duties once the employee is made regular after confirmation and di the company start to extract work of regular employee from due date of confirmation although it supplied letter of confirmation after 5 months? - Sir all deductions were effective from date of joining except mediclaim premium which was to be deducted after completion of on year. No change in work nature. -------Shall the Insurance Company agree to include the name in policy from back date? The answer seems to be NO. - Sir, i personally feel it is a question which the employer should be concerned of. If the employer knows that there are X no of employeed due for confirmation, they should have deposited the requisite premium with insurer before hand and deductd the premium from us (after completion of one year or after giving the confirmation order). You have the evidence that Confirmation of service has been effected with retrospective effect So if the insurance company shall not foot the bill, who shall have to? - Due to lapse on part of company it is they who should foot the bill for me. If company has deducted the premium from your salary is it on pro rated basis or entire year premium has been deducted?-  The premium is deducted monthly from salary. -------“5) Did not submit any bill nor intimated because as confirmation was delayed. ‘ - Sir, as i was not aware of the exact status of my employment, i didn't deemed fit to submit the bills to company in any expectations. As only when i got the confirmation letter, showing date of comfirmation retrospectively that i represented my case. ------“The offer later states: 1) your appointment for xyz post on probation for a period of one year from the date of reporting. The probation oeriod may b extended by a further period.” Here has the company mentioned further period of……………………how many days/months/years? - Sir, Six months. If the company has not mentioned in T&C for probation that the probation would be deemed as having been extended till the confirmation letter is issued, only then probation can be deemed to have been extended. However it can not be extended for indefinite period. - Sir, no such clause is mentioned for deemed extension until confirmation letter. If it is extended employee is rightful to know of it. The letter termed offer letter by you is offer letter or appointment letter? - Appointment letter. Does this PSU have its certified standing orders/service rules? Obtain a copy along with copy of job advertisement and go thru clauses on process and procedure of appointment. - There is service handbook/manual. It is sacrosant and no management order can overrule it. But it has happen in my case where provisions pertaining to medical benefits are blatantly disregarded by top to bottom. What is the probation period stated in standing orders? Is there any provision for engaging personnel thru service agreement? - Probation period - one year. Yes, there is a service agreement. There are Supreme Court judgments confirming that, the Employee cannot be deemed to be a Confirmed employee at the end of the probation period unless the terms of condition state it specifically. - There is no clause pertaining to same. But the issue for me stands for providing retrospective benefit if i am confirmed in services retrospectively. In your case the company can not state that it was convinced that service can not be confirmed at the end of probation period or 1/2/3/4/5 month after the due date as the probation period has not been extended, and the confirmation of service is with retrospective effect. Then what was it doing for these 5 months after due date of confirmation? Due to incompetence of administrators the process of appraisal and final decision on confirmation and issuance of letter of confirmation was delayed!!!!!!!!!!   “Service agreement states: 1)....the company on a probation for period of one year whihc may be extended by a further period of six months...” As per wording in service agreement, the probation period can not be extended for more than 6 months. The probation period has not been extended. But from the due date of confirmation the employee was made to believe that his services are not confirmed. - Yes sir, you got the point. I was made to believe that my services are not confirmed. BUt one fine day they send a confirmation letter that i am confirmed retrospectively. Does the service agreement supersede offer letter/appointment letter? You may go thru the language in service agreement. - Serivce agreement is on 100 rs stamp paper. So i think it supersedes appointment letter. Valuable advice of learned experts/members is sought.

Dear Sir,

I am highly obliged for your kind concern to my problem. Thank you for your kind reply. Giving further information in your quote.

You have posted that:

-----“The reply is given to my representation letter by Manager, Prsnl, Regional office. It is stated in writing addressed to my office manager.”

It is strange. It is also strange that the senior officer is addressing reply to the representation of the employee to the office manager.

It is unbecoming of a good officer in responsible department of Personnel.

If it is true then the establishment has erred in deducting all statutory deductions like PF from retrospective effect.

Or the communication of Manager-Personnel is termed as attempt to change service manual and conditions?????

The actions of the management must not be on the subjective satisfaction of the management but must be on some objective criteria. These should not be unjust or arbitrary or unreasonable

This may also be a blunt indicator to what would happen to representations by employee and employee may have to finally land up in court of law for interpretation and order.

------“The medical benefits are not provided during probation. ‘

Then what is the coverage and protection ensured by employer for hazards on job at workplace to a probationer who performs same duty as that of a regular employee e.g. ESIC, Workman compensation policy?????

------“i am going to approach Civil Courts for intrpreting the documnets of my organisation after exhausting inhouse grievance redressal forum.’

If the good offices that should behave like a parent and remain unbiased do not provide relief then employee has no then option than to knock at the doors of court of law.

After all courts and state is “ Parens Patriae” : “ Parent to the Nation”

------“There is service handbook/manual. It is sacrosant and no management order can overrule it.”

 Ambit of Service Manual: It should prevail upon appointment letter, offer letter, service agreement etc………….

The terms and conditions of employment in the certified standing orders/service manual cannot be negated to a workman by statements of Manager Personnel.

Do your best to resolve the matter thru good offices of the company.

It shall be appropriate to show all documents to a competent and experienced labor consultant/service lawyer well versed with rules and practices of the PSU, give inputs in person, understand the merits and proceed under expert advice of your lawyer.

Valuable advice of learned experts/members is sought.