Faulty EPF policy leading to large payments

Originally posted by : Ritesh Maity
	Sorry, for the typo. At the time of joining we have given them a signed document that we are not opting for PF   Your/ your company's opting and/ or non opting and signing of any document by anyone is immaterial. Once the establishment/ company is covered under the Act, PF is to be paid.  Your company is still fooling you and trying to put the huge burden of dues on the shoulder of the employees.

Fully agreed.

You are3 badly confused and trying to confuse everyone on the issue of undertaking said to be signbed by you.  There is need for you to be absolutely clear :-

1. Company is not at all entitled to receive any such undertaking from you that you are optingout of PF. 
2. You are not entitled to give any such undertaking from you that you are optingout of PF. 
3. PF is a binding statutory obligation and not dependent upon your whims an fancies.  it is not bank account.
4. Even otherwise as per contract act also any agremeent intended to defet provision of any law is void.

You also have to understand that:-

• company first fooled you and on the basis of illegal undertaking evaded your PF .
• now they have been caught and facing assesement.
• EPFO will make them to pay through their nose both employee share and employer share + interest + fine.
• EPFO has their own recovery mechanism and can recover by attaching anny assetts of the compnay and can even seal their premises, freeze their accounts, arrest the offenders. 
• EPFO do not need court order for doing the same.
• despite this payment the HR Manager (or some other/more persons) are liable to be jailed. 
• you as employee are not at all liable to pay anything regarding past wages.
• you as employee are not at all liable for any recovery action by EPFO
• employer is still fooling you to pay the arrears.  So they may also ask you to share fine as well.

Originally posted by : Ritesh Maity
	Sorry, for the typo. At the time of joining we have given them a signed document that we are not opting for PF   Your/ your company's opting and/ or non opting and signing of any document by anyone is immaterial. Once the establishment/ company is covered under the Act, PF is to be paid.  Your company is still fooling you and trying to put the huge burden of dues on the shoulder of the employees.

Fully agreed.

You are badly confused and dilegently trying to confuse everyone on the issue of undertaking said to be signed by you.  There is need for you to be absolutely clear :-

1. As per  EPF&MP Act 1952, the employer has as statutory liablility to (i) deduct employee share (ii) add employer share (iii) add service charges (iv) deposit the same in EPFO account by due date. (v) submit all statutory retirned by due date.
2. This obligation of the company is not at the choice of employee or employer.
3. Company is not at all entitled to receive any such undertaking from you that you are optingout of PF. 
4. You are not entitled to give any such undertaking from you that you are optingout of PF. 
5. PF is a binding statutory obligation and not dependent upon your whims an fancies.  it is not bank account.
6. Even otherwise as per contract act also any agremeent intended to defet provision of any law is void.

You also have to understand that:-

• company first fooled you and on the basis of illegal undertaking evaded your PF . Companby evaded liability under aforesaid act.
• company has  been caught (during raid under section 13 of the Act)
• company  is  facing assesement (under section 7 A for the Act)
• company  is  likely to face recovery (under section 8 of th Act).
• EPFO will make them to pay through their nose both employee share and employer share + interest + fine. (ऐसे ऐसे उनके पास रोज पकड़े जाते हैं, यह कोई उनका चोरी पकड़ने का पहला या आखिरी केस नहीं है )
• EPFO has their own recovery mechanism and can recover by attaching any assetts of the compnay and can even seal their premises, freeze their accounts, arrest the offenders. 
• EPFO do not need court order for doing the same. Their lowest level officer (asstt commissioner) is fully competent to order all such actions.
• They are empoweed but not bound to send arrest warrant to thana in recovery case.  Their own staff can come (usually comes) and arrest.
• despite this payment the HR Manager (or some other/more persons) are liable to be jailed. 
• you as employee are not at all liable to pay anything regarding past wages.
• you as employee are not at all liable for any recovery action by EPFO.

employer is still fooling you to pay the arrears.  So they may also ask you to share fine as well.

The question arises: Has the HR/Employer placed the said agreement/understaking before RPFC?

Has HR mentioned about such agreement/understaking  in its communications to employees?

Once again, I say that the bonds/ agreements whether presented before the RPFC or communicated to the employees is immaterial. 

If the establishment is covered, PF is to be paid.

If there is non-payment/ discrepencies in the mode of payment, the employer is liable and RPFC has every right to recover the same from the company. 

Employees in such cases have no liabilities.  

Originally posted by : Ritesh Maity
	Employer in such case has no liabilities.

 It should be 'Employer in such case has  liabilities.'

Has the HR/Employer placed the said agreement/understaking before RPFC?

Has HR mentioned about such agreement/understaking  in its communications to employees?

 

The finformation sought by Mr Kumar can be obtained under RTI from RPFC,

In case such silly argument was accpeted by any RPFC/APFC then it can be a serious dent on his careeer if the matter is reported to Vigilance wing of EPFO and to CVC..

Had such argument been acccepted then employer would not have been in a position of being coplelled to deposit the dues retrspectively and would have not have been forced to fool the employees to share the burden.

Mr. Sudhir Kumar has shared another prespective: Vigilance wing of EPFO and to CVC..  

You and all affected employees have to do something to defend your interest.

As posted in my first posts in the thread: Instead of opting out prefer to opt for:

PF,ESIC

The benefits  are unmatchable.

One  person has left the company recently. HR was about to deduct the amount from her F&F. But on request HR agreed to accept some post dated cheques, and take this amount in installments. It is indicated in the relieving letter that she has payments due to the company. She will get an updated relieving letter once she finishes her installments. As she was only for an year or so in the organization, dues were not much.  

There is no use stretching  this query/.

you hae already been advised of rule position.

Originally posted by : Amar Nanda
	One  person has left the company recently. HR was about to deduct the amount from her F&F. But on request HR agreed to accept some post dated cheques, and take this amount in installments. It is indicated in the relieving letter that she has payments due to the company. She will get an updated relieving letter once she finishes her installments. As she was only for an year or so in the organization, dues were not much.

Next time company will ask you to sell your kidney to pay outstanding PF dues. Be ready for that and keep us updated. 

Originally posted by : Amar Nanda
	One  person has left the company recently. HR was about to deduct the amount from her F&F. But on request HR agreed to accept some post dated cheques, and take this amount in installments. It is indicated in the relieving letter that she has payments due to the company. She will get an updated relieving letter once she finishes her installments. As she was only for an year or so in the organization, dues were not much.

In past some workers were sold like animals and made to work in factories / houses and fields without wages.

Read:

I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.

Alexander the Great
 

Read:

I will persist until I succeed.

In the Orient young bulls are tested for the fight arena in a certain manner. Each is brought to the ring and allowed to attack a picador who pricks them with a lance. The bravery of each bull is then rated with care according to the number of times he demonstrates his willingness to charge in spite of the sting of the blade. Henceforth will I recognize that each day I am tested by life in like manner. If I persist, if I continue to try, if I continue to charge forward, I will succeed.

I will persist until I succeed.

I was not delivered unto this world in defeat, nor does failure course in my veins. I am not a sheep waiting to be prodded by my shepherd. I am a lion and I refuse to talk, to walk, to sleep with the sheep. I will hear not those who weep and complain, for their disease is contagious. Let them join the sheep. The slaughterhouse of failure is not my destiny.

I will persist until I succeed.

The prizes of life are at the end of each journey, not near the beginning; and it is not given to me to know how many steps are necessary in order to reach my goal. Failure I may still encounter at the thousandth step, yet success hides behind the next bend in the road. Never will I know how close it lies unless I turn the corner.

Always will I take another step. If that is of no avail I will take another, and yet another. In truth, one step at a time is not too difficult.

I will persist until I succeed.

Henceforth, I will consider each day's effort as but one blow of my blade against a mighty oak. The first blow may cause not a tremor in the wood, nor the second, nor the third. Each blow, of itself, may be trifling, and seem of no consequence. Yet from childish swipes the oak will eventually tumble. So it will be with my efforts of today.

I will be liken to the rain drop which washes away the mountain; the ant who devours a tiger; the star which brightens the earth; the slave who builds a pyramid. I will build my castle one brick at a time for I know that small attempts, repeated, will complete any undertaking.

I will persist until I succeed.

I will never consider defeat and I will remove from my vocabulary such words and phrases as quit, cannot, unable, impossible, out of the question, improbable, failure, unworkable, hopeless, and retreat; for they are the words of fools. I will avoid despair but if this disease of the mind should infect me then I will work on in despair. I will toil and I will endure. I will ignore the obstacles at my feet and keep mine eyes on the goals above my head, for I know that where dry desert ends, green grass grows.

I will persist until I succeed.

I will remember the ancient law of averages and I will bend it to my good. I will persist with knowledge that each failure to sell will increase my chance for success at the next attempt. Each nay I hear will bring me closer to the sound of yea. Each frown I meet only prepares me for the smile to come. Each misfortune I encounter will carry in it the seed of tomorrow's good luck. I must have the night to appreciate the day. I must fail often to succeed only once.

I will persist until I succeed.

I will try, and try, and try again. Each obstacle I will consider as a mere detour to my goal and a challenge to my profession. I will persist and develop my skills as the mariner develops his, by learning to ride out the wrath of each storm.

I will persist until I succeed.

Henceforth, I will learn and apply another secret of those who excel in my work. When each day is ended, not regarding whether it has been a success or a failure, I will attempt to achieve one more sale. When my thoughts beckon my tired body homeward I will resist the temptation to depart. I will try again. I will make one more attempt to close with victory, and if that fails I will make another. Never will I allow any day to end with a failure. Thus will I plant the seed of tomorrow's success and gain an insurmountable advantage over those who cease their labor at a prescribed time. When others cease their struggle, then mine will begin, and my harvest will be full.

I will persist until I succeed.

Nor will I allow yesterday's success to lull me into today's complacency, for this is the great foundation of failure. I will forget the happenings of the day that is gone, whether they were good or bad, and greet the new sun with confidence that this will be the best day of my life.

So long as there is breath in me, that long will I persist. For now I know one of the greatest principles of success; if I persist long enough I will win.

I will persist.

I will win.

From: [Og Mandino, 'The Greatest Salesman in the World]