How can anyone prove that streedhan is in matrimonial home?

i read your answers again.I understood a bit.

simple english doesn't require any special lessons.even my english is simple,if you note.

always explain in a manner,as if you are writing this for children,ie,explain in an easy manner wot u r saying.(doesn't mean i'm a child)

well i dont know about others...but abt. me u r right.i have no practical exp. on how to get streedhan back thru the court.....that's why the question was raised..already too much damage has been done.

neeways.....Good Brahma Muhurat!   :)

@TajobsIndia

It is difficult to prove with false bills that one had so much of jewels in the matrimonial home. I remeber having read judgemnts right here in the LCI which has not taken a woman's plea of jewels in the matrimonial home with false document and false witness. It is always better to be realistic. There is always that amount of risk when there is a falsehood involved.The reply is specifically for TAJOBSINDIA when he says a false bill is enough. I agree with Advocate Kushan when he says it is not a gospel truth and many times it happens that a woman is harassed for this very reason that she does not have any proof.

Coming to Tajjobs contention that some women writers are confusing dowery issue, he has specifically mentioned a woman gives dowry. Does a woman gives dowry and man is not involved at all? 

Second, dowery can easily be converted into gifts of tangibble nature such as land in daughter's name or house in a daughter's name which can bring her either rental income or remain with her without the fear of being stolen or left behind in the matrimonial homes. There is a very thin line. Dowery convey the sense of coercison which willy nilly parents agrees to cater to because of prevailing norms and a general apathy of not challenging those norms by any of the parties involved in dowry seeking or giving behaviours. When it is gift for a daughter, gifts can always be in the form of tangible property in daughter's name. Tajjobs may have questions, which can be asked and they will be taken up.

Tajobs again and again refers to feminist understanding. I would draw his and other members attention to the fact that any progressive changes which are pro women and which are equity and not just uniformiuty based are the contribution of feminist thoughts and ideologogy. It's not that women alone are feminist, feminist men too exist. Feminism is not something which needs to be dreaded, but to be understood in the spirit of equity and rights. 

I expect a lot of challenges and questions thrown at me, and I will certainly answer them or osme other members would do it as per thier point of view.

Tajjobs in his two -three threads have hinted at some bolt from the blue by this weekend, and we with abatated breath are waiting for that. 

Advocate Kushan makes a lot of sense in his present posting/s and I do not think he is just a paper tiger. He may be a very humane lawyer who must be as much busy in courts as any other advocate on LCI.

@ Roshni

Quoting yours “how to get stridhan back thru the court.....that's why the question was raised. already too much damage has been done.”
Assuming for a second this is your personal issues then ask your adv. to file an application in jurisdiction Civil Court for ‘recovery’ of stridhan items. Mind it the value should be less than 10 L otherwise it should be filed before Jurisdiction District Judge Court. Court directs the jurisdiction PS to “recover” the stridhan and place it in record. If it is intra State then further remedy is seeked by complainant to ‘execute’ intra – State recovery of stridhan proceeding directions. Police travels to different State and present to his Jurisdiction PS for raiding and recovering the ‘stridhan’ Kerala, Karnataka, Bihar and UP Police are famous to come at 7 AM to husband’s home and create such public humiliation which is why you hear ‘voices’ of such aggrieved husbands here on counter applications and seeking remedies on fake empty bottle proceedings.

Here is so called (in complex English) I explain again how to recover ‘stridhan’ back which may still be not understood by you Roshni for which I finally say go check with a Lawyer of your choice my below ‘gyan’ However, I feel that indirectly you are provocating woman readers to file S. 498a IPC instead of using S. 406 IPC for such simple procedure to recover all articles given as stridhan and not gifts is my final submissions for peruse by readers;


A woman’s right to her stridhan is protected under law. S. 14 of the Hindu Succession Act, 1956 R/w S. 27 of the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 make a female Hindu an absolute owner of such property. In the case of Pratibha Rani Vs. Suraj Kumar, 1985 (2) SCC 370 the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India explained the concept of ‘Stridhan’ and its legal position under the Indian Laws. The Hon'ble Supreme Court of India held that

“a Hindu married woman is the absolute owner of her stridhan property and can deal with it in any manner she likes and, even if it is placed in the custody of her husband or her in-laws they would be deemed to be trustees and bound to return the same if and when demanded by her”.

It is, therefore, manifest that the position of stridhan of a Hindu married woman’s property during coverture is absolutely clear and unambiguous; she is the absolute owner of such property and can deal with it in any manner she likes-she may spend the whole of it or give it away at her own pleasure by gift or will without any reference to her husband. Ordinarily, the husband has no right or interest in it with the sole exception that in times of extreme distress, as in famine, illness or the like, the husband can utilize it but he is morally bound to restore it or its value when he is able to do so. This right is purely personal to the husband and the property so received by him in marriage cannot be proceeded against even in execution of a decree for debt, such being the nature and character of stridhan of a woman.

If her husband or any other member of his family who are in possession of such property, dishonestly misappropriate or refuse to return the same, they may be liable to punishment for the offence of criminal breach of trust under S. 405 & 406 IPC.

Precautions: Women who wish to protect their stridhan rights must take precautionary steps such as;

(a)  Make a list of the gifts and/or properties received before, during and after marriage from your family, your husband’s family, friends and other acquaintances.


(b) Keep evidence for the gifts received by you such as wedding pictures. Also, ensure that the gifts and their bills are in your name and preserve these bills. 


(c) Have witnesses - statements of witnesses will be important evidence - for gifts of movables (including jewellery) at the time of marriage.

Re.: Anil Kumar Jain vs Maya Jain, 2009 case
Re.: Pratibha Rani v. Suraj Kumar, 1985 (2) SCC 370

The above two landmark decision of the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India has been followed by various High Courts of India in the subsequent years, namely, Raginiben Gunvantsinh Tank v. Gunvantlal Keshavlal Tank And Ors. [2003 (3) G.L.R. 2027], Reema Aggarwal v. Anupam [2004 Cri LJ 892] and many others.

Further reference are already here in link:

www.lawyersclubindia.com/.../Dummies-guide-What-to-do-when-false-stridhan-list-submitted--23153.asp   

Still further reference to get quashed false charges of Stridhan are as below (for husband readers reference):

Summary: The inherent jurisdiction of High Court could and should be exercised to quash proceedings where  either  there was no legal evidence adduced  in support of  the charge or the evidence adduced clearly  or manifestly failed to prove the charge.

How to use: Use this judgment to get IPC 406, DP 3/4 cases quashed where there is no legal evidence adduced that indicates that any jewelery (streedhan) was even purchased by the complainant or her relatives, leave alone handing over the same to the accused.  If the purchase bills of items are not produced before the court, then these proceedings should not be allowed to be continued.

Re.: R. P. KAPUR Vs. RESPONDENT: THE STATE OF PUNJAB [1960 AIR 862 or 1960 SCR (3) 311]

@ Ambika

Read again my first post to Roshni. I did not say ‘false’ bills while explaining how to recover, don’t put words in my mouth. All false claims are matter of ‘trial’ whereas Roshni asked a very good que. wherein what I understood by her que. is that a lady is left out with her stridhan and when she approaches Police and or Court she has to prove to get which is not the scenario “in practice” when one turns the wheel of criminal Law. The Women’s Cell read with Jurisdiction Police instructs husband to bring all items as per list on day one. It is unfortunate that husband has to keep on proving his ‘innocence’ on that ‘cupboard’ So kindly don’t mix two three issues and confuse writers.


Now coming to putting next set of words in my mount that “a woman gives dowry” and ‘does a man is not involved’ is a stupid way to understand a sentence which I did not say. I say and I repeat who gives dowry to whom first tell me? It is obvious that dowry is given by a woman to a man or his side of family so why put such naïve que. as if dowry is given to a chowkidar and not to the husband and or his side of family. Now why mix stridhan with ‘customary gifts’ is Roshni’s que. asking about gifts it is broader que. of hers which also includes ‘gifts’ And all these are matter of further trial which I repeat. But, at the stage when a lady is outside her matrimonial home her main worry is to get back all items that she brought from her home to her matrimonial home period. I used specific Johnny Walker to indirectly mean on ‘trial’ not meant to segregate ‘stridhan’ and ‘customary gifts’ but also gave a hint on opinion of SC and finally said how many get a chance to reach to SC means superior courts just to get clear lis on their stridhan items!

Third, the reply of mine is no where meaning that husband does ask or does not ask so again don’t put extra words in my mouth. Roshni’s que. are on different footing and has been replied in my first post and this post (period).
Kindly go an read my earliest posts on Dowry as well as S. 498a IPC and dummies guide series and I have no desire to reinvent wheel and throw challenges. You are maintaining a separate file of quotes and unquotes of selected writers as given to understand in one of your earlier post so u may maintain a separate folder of my quotes too and refer to their consistencies.
The bolt is this mail of yours and not that I can dare issue such natures call unwarrantedly.

Specific que. specific replies is what matters not mixing all issues. You have other issues in your posts raise it in heading wise and see my reaction to them and I replied to Roshni and say I apologise I should not have named 4 names at last but one sentence so I am leaving just to this level. 
 

Bottom line at start is that a women need not have to prove on day 1 that the items mentioned in her list is true or false. All she has to do is to file a list and day 1 court ensures she gets them recovered. Later from day 2 trial starts so my reply is restricted on procedure and practice of day 1 in case my English is not understood to you two.


Also otherway out to understand is to file S. 498a instead of S. 406 and see the difference practically. There is whole lot of difference of 'being directly hit" as thus becoming experienced and "knowing" about it via internet thus unless you have practical experience you will not understand my English. I am experienced in both thus I had the tenacity to express and show both sides of "practical coin" after contesting them for some 8 years tooth and nail and relaised the true worth of empty Johnny Walker bottle!

@ Tajobs

Thanks for writing in detail.

I haven't read your whole paragraph.Will read it aram se.But I read the 1st para,where you referred to me.

It's no use fighting for my streedhan now because I was made to sign the settlement by coercion by the mediator,as she was favouring the other party too much.

My parents remained mum(they were overstressed),my lawyer was non-supportive,while the mediator was a v.powerful senior advocate,who kept pestering me to sign it,by making me remain in the centre till 10PM(Court closes at 5-6 PM)

when we asked for my complete streedhan she used to shout at me and my parents,that we are being unreasonable,as we have no proofs to support that so much streedhan is with inlaws.

her argument was that the boy's party is coming from a far away town,so i should compromise at wotever they are giving me,else they may have to travel again,which is inconvenient for them

..she also said that even if my inlaws give me fake jewellery in place of genuine gold jewellery i should accept it because there is no proof that my parents had gifted me gold jewellery.

after this forced settlement I went to a new lawyer,spent almost a lakh on him so that he can show how i was harassed during mediation..He made many promises,including that the mediator's role will also be exposed.Later he told me(I don't know if he was telling the truth) that the mediator,on knowing that I had appointed him,sent him threats through someone from the Bar Council of India,as to why he's helping me.

Though my advocate remained with me,he started acting laid back after this threat by missing hearings,coming v.late 2-2.5 hrs. after my hearing.as a result,my half day will be spent in courts.

His slackness was another big jolt to my case.When I tried complaining to the court about the mediator's conduct,my lawyer discouraged me from doing so,while my parents created a ho hulla,"Don't complain because she is a very powerful person"

So now I have accepted this pittance alimony(just 2-3 months of my NRI hubby's income,who deserted me for 55 months)+20% of my streedhan as my destiny,my bad destiny...For example all gold presented by inlaws is still with them,all my professional course books and notes(unavailable in the market.colleges not providing now,as i am no more their student),and many many more belongings are with them.Since 2007,I do not know where my husband lives.

This case now stands settled, though by force.Even the divorce is being obtained. under duress.

My husband has not shown his face since 2006.Only his dad has been coming.Even settlement has taken place b/w me and father inlaw(as if i am married to FIL.Another big joke!)

I could have again gone to a 3rd lawyer,but paisa per pe to nahi ugta na.I dont have so much money.Already paid 1 in advance to this unfaithful lawyer.

Even after mediation is over 1.5 yrs back(divorce not granted yet)this mediator comes to court like their lawyer,represents them,but on paper she is simply a mediator.So no one can doubt her that she's been siding with them throughout.

All i know is that for my husband,this mediator has become his bhua and for my father inlaw,his sister.This is how they address her.

Indian judiciary is a big joke!

@

I knew about your case (earlier briefs) and 'probably' I was the first one to reply to your that HC mediation saga post posted a very very long time back!


Bottom line is "no spouse wins if your above HC facts are to be included in memories of a spouse's journey (tombstone) then so are cases of several genuine Indian husbands who were falsely implicated in either and/or under both S. 498a IPC / S. 406 IPC cases and the only folks who win out of these are left unsaid the better." 


I am closing my thoughts on this post and let readers have their say if any and I will not like to come back to this post until provoked.


Only practical advise for you is 'march ahead with positive thoughts bze. life is still beautiful out there'........................ 

thanks for replying.

i am writing abt my issue for the first time here...

i dont agree that no spouse wins.

these persons who cud escape after paying just 2-3 months of their salary,after getting for free 80% of my costly items,bought from my parents'hard earned money are the biggest beneficiaries,and of course the "one" who got influenced.

not to mention the avoidance of their defamation in society(had the case progressed)even after subjecting me to intense attrocities within the 4 walls of the house,which are the only witness to it.....

the Bhuaji/sister mediator in question took care that they never learn a lesson...only 2 hearings of mediation were conducted by her,and in 2nd hearing only this coercion was applied on me.thus,even after settlement was dun,she was not really aware of my full case,as she was more interested in closing it!

life is beautiful for those who have been treated fairly.but it become  4ever bitter to those who live with the poison of injustice forever,because here" justice hurried has been justice buried".

anyways i appreciate your last inspiring lines in your above post and wud like to thank u for the same.will try following them also.

@ Roshni

All highlighted wordings of your this post in previous page 2 are same wording wise as in below past three disscussed posts and it is said in Law that no two authors cases are similar so when you say "i am writing abt my issue for the first time here........." then it is half correct. The below links have either Anonymous name as author's name or the authors name's LCI account was deleted so what you say and I quote above is only half the truth for readers here.


How much similar wordings these links are with your above un-reported briefs till date where you say this is the first time you are narrating your past briefs hai na! Read down these three links and see yourself how your briefs which is claimed as un-reported till date can be of some others Authors other than your very own!!!

https://lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Can-settlement-be-forced-by-mediator--130156.asp

https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Settlement-signed-under-duress-in-High-Court-14806.asp

https://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Query-regarding-mutual-divorce-in-Delhi-s-district-court--132566.asp

However I admire such strong resolve in ladies to still keep on chasing a pending agenda. I still stand by my last stated prayer to you i.e. keep marching ahead with postivity in life and add here that a past venom should be either spitted when time was ripe and or should be swallowed as in Lord Shiva and carry forward helping society which offcourse you are doing so if present mixed postings are reviewed but carrying a past venom with you.


Means you have already discussed your personal case since early 2010 in LCI under  Anonymous and your earlier account name till it was deleted but for the first time you are posting your brief under a given name such as Roshni B hence you were earlier a member of LCI by some other name. Not that all these matters to me but digging past postings where facts and wordings were quite similar do not lie.


It is very simple English which you can understand and don’t rebut to me saying you don’t understand my English you all damn well do understand all writings.

All the very best.

My question is different ?

How a husband proove that his valuables is with her fraud wife or with fraud out laws ?

For your reference, Snaps and videos of handed over of the belonging's to them is available with us ?

Is it valid proof in a court ?

Also they planned & do many criminal activities just before the saptpadi, When we remain only five as well in a very planned manner ?

Await good suggestion from any respected ?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Abhinatre Gupt.

SOOOoooo............Now my questing is....

As per HMA, if the girl is found in prohibited relation ship (Under section 5) before marriage and due that if the marriage declared as NULL & VIOD.

In above circumstance

what happen to the “STREEDHAN?”

Can the girl still eligible to keep the jewelry (given by Boys side gift) with her?

Repeated query Rahul T

These things are to be decided by corraboration only by the court.

Regards,

Shonee Kapoor

harassed.by.498a@gmail.com

Main stridhan is her husband. If its lost forget rest..

Also many women misuse the privileges given by Indian law to women. So unless they prove no stridh an should be given. Rather women should be educated before marriage to safeguard her stridhan.