Employers rights against wrong allegation made by the employee in labour office
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 11 May 2013
This query is : Resolved
Dear Sir,
One of my relative has faced the following issue.
They have employed 1 employee and he has fabricated his relieving letter of previous company and knowledge skills at the time of interview. After 15-20 days his manager realized that he is not capable of doing job assigned to him. He has issue him warning letter cum termination letter stating that he will not be able to get any salary from today onwards and is terminated.
Company also runs a training center so he request them to train him and against that that employee will pay monthly fees to them. Now after 1 month of training he suddenly disappear and joined some union and has now compliant about them in labour office.
He was duly paid till the date of termination letter. All payments were through bank and was given offer letter only. He has taken advance also.
Please tell me the rights the company have against such employees
Please help in solving this your valuable advise is required.
Thanks
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 11 May 2013
Your long story does reveal only that he has "complained" but not what complaint is?
"he has fabricated his relieving letter of previous company and knowledge skills at the time of interview. "
Why this known affair was ignored?Why no action was taken?Why he was employed knowingly?
Your relative is running a company but dealing affairs through you is itself a big
handicap company should address.
Guest
(Expert) 11 May 2013
You need to answer three questions first, (1) what is your position in the company; and (2) what allegation the employee has made against the company; and (3) whether the company issued due notice as per terms of offer/appointment letter, or paid notice period pay, if termination was without any notice?
H.M.Patnaik
(Expert) 11 May 2013
Pl. come up with real problem and respond to the queries raised by Experts above to get proper advice you are looking for. Otherwise it is sheer loss of time and energy of both the parties.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 11 May 2013
First of all its real story and all the facts are mentioned below:
He has made the compliant that the company has not paid him for last 1 year and that he was terminated without payment of required salary and other benefits..He was employed in 2013 but he has mentioned in compliant that he was employed in 2012 and from that 1 year he was not paid a single rupee..
Facts of the case are:
He was given salary till last working date i.e. 20th of the month and from 21st as told he requested company to train him so he was there as a trainee and was learning from them after 1 month he suddenly disappear and has not picked the call and next day notice from labour office received.
He was issued only offer letter it was silent on notice pay.. as in 15 days we came to know he didnt know anything about the work..
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 11 May 2013
the day we get to know he has fabricated relieving letter and skills he was terminated that day only...
He admitted orally that he was done that because of that company has agreed to train him..
Just to mention the use of this platform does not show handicapness of any company
H.M.Patnaik
(Expert) 12 May 2013
AS understood from your posting, the concerned workman joined the your employment by producing false and fabricated papers/ documents/ certificates in respect of his previous employment.
The incompetence of the concerned workman could be observed by the authority within a fortnight and disengagement was made.
the very same person was again deployed as a trainee in the same organistion and in course of his training due apprenticeship fees has been paid.He absconded from the organisation during training period.
The offer letter handed over to the complainant can only come into force upon joining in fresh employment after successful completion of training which is yet to take place.
Hence, the Employer- company has to subtantite own stand to the satisfaction of the Labour authority by producing document in support of stand in the case and strongly refute the charges leveled against the employer.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 12 May 2013
very true Mr. Patnaik
I want to know that under what provisions of different law we will consider this kind of cases..
Guest
(Expert) 12 May 2013
Mr. Jindal,
You want to know employer's right against his employee, but I feel you do not want to reveal the real facts.
You have not replied my two earlier queries, No. (1) & (3) so far. I wonder to know why you are shy of revealing your own position in the company and whether you observed the conditions of termination or not.
If you hesitate to speak the truth and want how you can get undue support supposedly to harm the interest of the employee without providing full facts, you should also know that your company can well afford hiring of a consultant in service matters to know that under what provisions of different law you would consider this kind of cases.
Be aware, services are not governed by one or two provisions of any law. Laws are made to safeguard the interests of the workers against unethical actions of the employers. So, better be clear in stating the facts. If you have not observed the provisions of notice period before termination of services of the empployee, no law can help you. The question is not for the pay merely for the last day of working, the question is whether you paid the notice period pay also, if terminated his service without giving him minimum one month's notice, or as per the period prescribed in the terms of his appointment, for the purpose of termination.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 13 May 2013
Dear Mr Dhingra, with due respect I would bring the fact that I have from the starting have clear this fact of my position in the company. I also do not understand how my position will make the difference in the remedies avaliable to the company in case of false allegations made by the employee...Or you want to know so that you will try to start marketing and try to convince me for meeting or taking services of u or any consultant. I wonder why you need toknow why all are worrying for my position before giving the advise. Is the provisions of law depends on this.. If you read my first line..it states that "my relatives". Cant I ask a query for anyone of my relative if he is not aware of the laws. Yes i know that for running a company we need to know the laws..but I believe no one learn at the day 1.. They have appointed some employee and if that person has fabricared the documents and skills for seeking job and the company after observing terminate and he insists to take training classes from the company for a said fees and 1 day he run and made false allegations that he is not paid for months..will it will depend on the notice pay??? I could not understand your logic. I would advise you that before advising please read the facts mentioned. Its not just you login and write anything...I know you are a senior person but please try to respect others as well...
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 13 May 2013
One more thing if we can afford to take the help of consultants why we would come here to ask the queries..
Guest
(Expert) 13 May 2013
Mr. Jindal,
About your advice to me and your query, "will it will depend on the notice pay??? I could not understand your logic. I would advise you that before advising please read the facts mentioned," thanks for your great advice.
But, where are the facts, when you do not want to reveal any. While notice period or pay in lieu of that is very crucial, you have not revealed that fact so far. You have not revealed your position ir relation with the comppany, but your outburst vry clearly reveal that you are the employer, not your relative, If your relative had any concern, he could well have come with the facts. Your position makes a lot of difference, as if you are not related to the company in any way, you cannot be expected to be aware of the reality and can not be expected to explain full facts and background of the case.
Your statement, "Its not just you login and write anything," clearly reveals that you have the desire to seek help, but as a matter of right, not as of help. Your arrogance towards one and all and exertion of your right becomes more clear from your statement, "why all are worrying for my position before giving the advise."
Mind it, help cannot be sought as a right or by compulsion. Further, if you have posted your query in an open forum, the question becomes open for for one and all either to reply or to seek more information to clear his doubt. So, I raised queries, as I had my own doubts about the truthfulness of case.
About your statement, "i know that for running a company we need to know the laws..but I believe no one learn at the day 1," is your company only 1 day old and you terminated services of the employee on the very first day of start of your company?
About your query, "One more thing if we can afford to take the help of consultants why we would come here to ask the queries," this forum is not meant for deriving commercial benefits by companies, which can well afford expenditure to hire lawyers at local level. Moreover, if you feel that the allegation is wrong, you will have to represent your case before the labour court through some knowledgebale person, as you cannot counter the arguments there merely on the basis of replies to your casual queries. Furthermore, if your company can use unfair means towards the employee by not observing the law about termination just to deny the due notice period or pay to him in lieu of that, I wonder to know, why you should expect that he should be honest with you. Better try to face the reality instead of casting aspersions on experts.
NOW COMING TO YOUR PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME with your statement, "Or you want to know so that you will try to start marketing and try to convince me for meeting or taking services of u or any consultant," I take exception to that. However, I would like to pose one question to you, out of my more than 8000 posts on this forum, have you found even a single instance, where I would have asked any querist in my replies to contact me in person?
Mind it, my own goodwill is my better source of my marketing, which is spread only by the satisfied clients/ querists.
About your worry that I shall contact you if you reveal your links with the company, don't worry about that, at least I am not interested in contacting you or your relative. Had I been interested to contact you, your relation with the company was not necessary for me to know for that purpose, as I could well have contacted you through private message by PM service of this website even at the initial stage after seeing your query. HAVE YOU FOUND ANY PM FROM ME IN YOUR PM BOX TILL NOW?
However, rest assured, even if you try to hire my services on payment basis, I would definitely decline yours or your relative's request even if you come to my own place what to say of contacting through company or email. I do not render my services to egoistic and unethical persons. So that way also it would be preferrable, if you let me know what is name of the company and your relative, so that I may keep a special note about that to remember at all the times about my assurance to you.
For your kind information, I do not hanker after people for work, contrarily, work chases me. I do not also go out of my place to do job for others. I work at my own leasure and at my own place just to pass time in my retired life. I do not also undertake more than one paid consultation on any day that too when some complex and time taking problem is there with some client, as my needs are almost negligible.
I do not also ask for the particulars of the People who contact me on phone or through email for advice, except where most essential in their own interest or for documentation purposes. Except in doubtful cases, like yours, I render advice or guidance without knowing the people in person. Don't think as if I am boasting. If you like, I can forward hundreds of such emails for which I provided my suggestions/ guidance without knowing who the persons were, who contacted me.
As an other important information for your knowledge, I spend much more amount on maintenance of infrastructure to render free consultancy services than I earn through negligible paid consultancies.
SO NOW, in turn, I would like to advise you that before casting aspersion on any expert member and doubting about his fairness, you must try to see his replies to all others.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 13 May 2013
thanks Mr Dhingra , for such essay type explanation and doing defence for yourself.. I am a student as my profile says and m indeed a student. Not an employer.. Also please be rest assured that i will not approach you not my uncle would approach you for any help ever so you dont have to worry on that. I must say it was a bad experience.. I would thank Mr. Patnaik for his answer..and I think I have touch your weakness that makes you so frustrated that you have written so many points to support yourself.. I know you are a genious experienced lawyer and you know how to play with words..But I dont find it a point to involve into a long conversation with you. The Company would win this I know as uncles has not done any wrong. Its the mind set of people like you that laws are only for one section only but you forget law is for all whether an employee or employer..
NOw coming to the end I know you will again reply as egostic find it difficult to keep quit.. Mind it the respect you want you can get only when you give it to others as well.. Just because of age and experience yoy dont have the right to say whatever you want and use the words you want or give decisions..You have visited my profile not me and i need help if you read my first post i have request it not written as if its my right..as a lwas student i know the difference between request and demand..
So please be chill and take a glass of water and we conclude the debate and you won..You are very senior and experienced person who have lots of other work like free consultation etc so dont want to waste your as well as my precious time..
Thanks...
Guest
(Expert) 13 May 2013
Mr. Jindal,
Thanks for another piece of great advice. Your profile does not indicate anywhere that you are a student. Even in your profile you have written "I will be updating it soon." I really wonder what prohibited you earlier to introduce yourself as a student, when you felt your ego as hurt on our asking about your position in the company?
My post was neither an essay, nor my explanation, rather I raised questions on your own egoistic attitude and presumption about alleged marketing when you did not know about me.
Why should I worry if you or your uncle won't approach me, as it is you or your uncle who needs help, not me. Also for what purpose shoud I visit you? would I need any help, I would request my fellow experts for the same.
I asked my queries on reading your original query, which clearly lacked the very essential information, as you have still not explained about notice period, as according to your previous post you could not understand logic about notice or notice period pay. Rather even on asking for the information, you did not supply the information, as you did not want to understand the logic of notice period and the notice period pay. Now you need not ask about that, as the Labour office will make you and your uncle understand the logic about notice period and notice period pay.
As you are quite optimistic, I also wish the Company should win on your logic, as you feel your uncle has not done any wrong. For that I would like to congratulate you in advance even before start of hearing.
Best of luck!
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 13 May 2013
"Or you want to know so that you will try to start marketing and try to convince me for meeting or taking services of u or any consultant."
Mr. Dhingra was too soft in dealing with you.Ur remarks like this cannot be tolerated. Lots of waste of time and !!
Company being commercial/ profit motivated establishment , must engage adv to handle such problem instead of approaching you to get free advise from us. After all it's pure business.
How your company tolerated him, and sent him to training, instead of sending him to JAIL for submitting false and fabricated documents to get employment thereby cheated the company??
Lodge Police Complaint immediately, and remove him from trg.
Attack is the best way to defend.
Guest
(Expert) 14 May 2013
Dear Shri Shroff,
Probably, he believes as if his own conviction about service laws added with his arrogance would make him and his uncle win the case.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 15 May 2013
I think Mr Dhingra is busy in reading the movement of this post only. I have already mention him that he wins but his ego is not yet satisfied. Inspite of that he is making useless and baseless comments like the one above.. This shows who is arrogant or egoistic.. Nevermind I welcome criticism as i m young and to learn you need to face it and move forward and just reply again and again. This just simply wastefulness of time.
Mr Dhingra being a senior person and famous expert on this forum such silly things are just affecting your image. I have already mentioned that the query is resolved then only you are just replying.. I dont understand what you want to prove by doing this...
Mr. Shroff, yes this is the think which they should have done they same day they have observed the fact that the documents are fabricated. Thanks for your revert.
no pain no gain....
(Querist) 15 May 2013
I request Mr Dhingra to finish it off.. No Hard feelings..
Thats what I can say and even if you want to reply please go ahead and reply on daily basis..
Guest
(Expert) 15 May 2013
Mr. Jindal,
You probably forget that my response was to Shri Shroff's post.
However, I appreciate your GREAT PAIN TO HIDE YOUR IDENTITY and become anonymous in the guise of your newly invented nick name "No Pain No Gain."
About your goodwill gesture through your statement, "I welcome criticism," naturally, when you have hidden your identity from one and all, you would definitely welcome any criticism as that would not affect you in any way, but on the contrary you would be free to throw mud on any of the experts openly?
BUT OF COURSE, THAT PROVIDES AMPLE PROOF OF YOUR FEAR AND FRUSTRATION, which compelled you to camouflage your identity from all the members of this community so that you can avoid damage of your image, as a law student and prospective lawyer. Certainly you don't want that the community members should know who criticises whom in the guise of anonymous name "no pain no gain". Naturally, if you keep your identity open the community members would definitely be able to notice instances of your revengeful and unremorseful attitude.
However, I really wonder about your dual stance. On one hand you request me "to finish it off.. No Hard feelings," BUT ON THE OTHER, you have tried to add fuel to the fire by saying, "if you want to reply please go ahead and reply on daily basis.."
THAT CLEARLY SMELLS ABOUT YOUR OWN EVIL DESIGNS. Had you been interested to finish off, you would not have responded to my post specifically addressed to Shri Shroff, would not have passed more weary and silly remarks against me, would not have hidden your identity with the fear of spoilage of your image, and would not have written the last specific contradictory post compelling me to reply your two latest posts merely to stretch the issue. THAT CLEARLY INDICATES THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO FINISH OFF, RATHER GIRDED UP YOUR LOINS TO INTENTIONALLY INSULT ME.
NOW IT IS UP TO YOU WHETHER YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO FINISH IT OFF OR TO CONTINUE. But, if you want to continue, I dare you to come forward with your real identity (not with anonymous nick name), so that the whole class of community members may be able to know where you atually stand, as a law student and a prospective lawyer.
ANYWAY, INDEED A GREAT ACT ON YOUR PART by taking pain to hide yourself for deriving some gain in playing your evil and mud throwing game.
GOOD LUCK!
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 25 May 2013
employer has a right to defend and for defending he needs an expert to represent and without him the above discussion will be futile
adv. rajeev ( rajoo )
(Expert) 11 May 2013
