In related with my father state govt disciplinary action asking me to clear the debts
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 21 April 2013
This query is : Resolved
Greetings,
My father was expired in 22-OCT-2010, and on compassionate grants I got a govt job as Junior Assistant in the same Panchayat Raj Dept,Andhra Pradesh on 30-05-2012.
In 2006 my father has faced a disciplinary action for not having supervision on his staff who misappropriated panchayat funds which was under verification since then, recently in month of March-2013 , I received a notice from District Panchayat Officer , so as I was a heir , I have to pay the half of the misappropriated amount.
All things like Pension etc etc where passed in last year only.
And most importantly in which category this case falls under, Civil Case or Constitutional case???
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 21 April 2013
You have not stated what was tn end of the disciplinary proceedings.
misappropriation cannot be proved successful unless your father is alive and having opportunity to answer the charged.
.
Even if he misappropriated, they need court order for recovering from you.
2006-2013 apparently it is time barred debt unless you have more facts to disclose.
It is a civil case.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 21 April 2013
I am sorry I didn't get you, what I have not stated?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 21 April 2013
whether DP finalised before your father dies, if so what was the decision.
whetehr department has filed any civil suit if so when.
when was his liability adjudicated.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 21 April 2013
The disciplinary letter on my father(as an officer) and other staff was filed in 2006.Later the verification was gone in various steps. It was finalised in Jan-30-2013 and my father was died in 22-OCT-2010(after 14-15 months of his death).And the decision is that total money who misappropriated Mr.X and My self as I was heir have to pay half and half.In notice it was mentioned clearly my father failed in only supervision(not misappropriated it) and Mr.X was misappropriated it.
No Department has not failed any civil suit yet.
Liability was adjudicated on Jan-30-2013 and I received notice on 28-March-2013.
Isaac Gabriel
(Expert) 22 April 2013
Charge of supervision lapse is levelled against your father.If so,what happened to the individuals directly connected with.were they punished.If so,no liability could be fixed for supervision lapse,except disiplinary action.That too is not possible as he is no more.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 22 April 2013
The individuals connected with are my father and Mr.X.
Mr.X was immediately suspended and charge of supervision lapse was filed in 2006, the verification is going on.
My father was passed away in 2010 and on compassionate grants I got a govt job from state govt in same department and all remaining after death formalities like PF, Pension , Gratuity was cleared in Mar-2012 and I got job in May-2012.
In Mar-2013, after 15 months of my father death, a notice was sent to my office saying as I was the heir I need to pay the half of the misappropriated amount and the remaining half by Mr.X with in 15 days after receiving notice.Now 25 days were passed away I am not getting any Idea what to do.
P. Venu
(Expert) 23 April 2013
It appears that you have got some facts wrong and you are not fully informed of the disciplinary proceedings, if any, initiated against your father.
Any how, a departmental action comes to end on the death of the employee. Also, all the pensionary benefits have been released. Prima facie, the Department's action is misconceived.
Guest
(Expert) 23 April 2013
Case against your father would have been treated as closed on his death. No action rests on your father after his death and what to say about recovery from you. Better take a stay order from the court of law before your office starts making recovery from your pay.
Isaac Gabriel
(Expert) 23 April 2013
Supervision lapse is different from misappropriaion.Unless proved,recovery cannot be made from you.Do as expert Dhingra suggested.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 23 April 2013
Thank you all individually for your valued suggestion and solutions!!!!!!!!
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 01 May 2013
Sorry for opening the thread as it was most needed.
I decided to write reply letter to that notice to my district level officer stating that doesn't concerns to me.And my colleagues suggested me to write a letter with most care and all Section attachments.
Points that I liked to highlight which keeps the letter in prominent way.
1.By Expert Sudhir
****misappropriation cannot be proved successful unless your father is alive and having opportunity to answer the charged.*****
2.By Expert Isaac Gabriel
*****no liability could be fixed for supervision lapse,except disiplinary action.That too is not possible as he is no more.******
3.By Expert Dingra
****Case against your father would have been treated as closed on his death. No action rests on your father after his death*****
I NEED SECTIONS AND RULES FOR ABOVE STATED LAWS TO ATTACH WITH THE LETTER AND REQUESTING THEM TO ABATE IT.
Hope any one would help on all these.
Regards
Pradeep
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 04 May 2013
seach indiakanoon. The aboove views are based on the principles of natural justice
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 14 May 2013
repeated at http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/hire-responsibility-in-clearing-father-un-proven-departmental-disiplinary-action-392286.asp
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 14 May 2013
Yes Mr.Sudhir Kumar, the reason behind that post is that on your suggestion I checked all over "indiakanoon" but didn't find any related section or rule for the mentioned points there, so I decided not to argue with my officers about past and taking straight point that they asking me to pay as I was a heir so I defend with them by saying heir need not to clear debts according to the law so and so
there also I am facing same problem what section and rule have to mention in letter, my colleagues are saying mentioning section and rule is must.
Hope you got the intention behind that post, and can you help me in getting the rule to put an end to my issue, eagerly waiting for the solution any one please help me on this.
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Hire-responsibility-in-clearing-father-un-proven-departmental-disiplinary-action-392286.asp
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 15 May 2013
If they want you to pay as heir then let them file civil suit and prove the liabiloity in court.
If they want to recover from you as employee then they can do so only by issue of chargesheet by proving that you caused the loss.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 15 May 2013
Yes Raj Kumar we are very clear about the issue, its 100% solved , but we are looking for the section and rule for that issue as a heir !!!
Can you help on this???
Law, Section and Rule please, hence we can put an end to the issue.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 15 May 2013
Law is nothing but a common sense. As department is desirous to recover allegedly misappropriated amount from you being his heir then let the department tell you law, section etc. vide which such demand can be raised. Who so ever asserts, must prove. This is the general law. A criminal proceeding cannot be initiated against the legal heir of deceased accused person and if department has initiated any civil liability then let them prove before the civil court so that you may get an opportunity to oppose it on all grounds.
Alohith Baba
(Querist) 15 May 2013
Yes they didn't mentioned any rule in my notice,
On colleague strong force to mention section and rule, I am waiting since long back to give a reply to them, thanks for your reply I will go through like that.
Thanks to Lawyers Club India site and all the Experts who replied to my post individually.
Guest
(Expert) 15 May 2013
You need to give a very simple reply that recovery due from one employee cannot be made from another employee.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 15 May 2013
It shall be better from your side to first demand the relevant rule from your department and seek extension to file reply till then.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 16 May 2013
It is the department which wants money and they have to tell under which rule they can recover from you.
You have to consult the CCA rules of the state govt which will indicate how recovery can be made from an employee.
beware as per informaation given by you it is unproven misappropriation.
better meet nearest lawyer.
