Salary deduction for absence on independence day
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
This query is : Resolved
In one of the offices, Salary for one day has been deducted for not attending Independence day celebrations held in the office. Many employees were not able to attend the said function due to various personal reasons. The Management has deducted one day's salary for not attending Independence day celebrations.After the month end an internal circular has been served that all employees must compulsarily attend to Independence day and Republic day celebrations failing which salary would be deducted. Is such circular applicable to the event which has occured in the past and whether it is applicable backdated? Is the act of the employer tenable in law? please advise. what is the legal recourse available to the employees?
It is a co-operative bank established under Karnataka state co-operative societies act and the nature of work carried out is banking activities.
Guest
(Expert) 05 September 2018
Mr. Srinivas,
Are you sure about happening of such a problem in your organization and also that you are sure to go for legal action against your bank just for your one day's salary?
Apparently, no authority is such a fool to deduct salary of merely one day that too of a paid holiday. If any authority has done so, he himself can be subject to disciplinary action against him for violation of the provision of industrial laws as well as the Government of India's standing instructions.
The authorities can rather benefit the organization by penalizing the undisciplined employees by imposing penalties of withholding their increments or reducing their salary by stepping them down to lower stages in their pay scales continuously for one or two years by initiating disciplinary action against them for break of discipline and an act of insubordination on their part.
Seemingly, yours is merely a hypothetical problem, not a real one.
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
Sir, it is not a hypothetical problem, it is a real one. but since this being a public forum I cannot disclose the name of the bank
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
Also I want to know If it is legally tenable on the part of the employer to penalise the employees for not attending Independence Day Celebrations? If so please quote relevant provisions of Law under which the employer can penalise the employees for not attending the function?
can the staff union make a representation to the management to condone the absence and reverse the deduction ?
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
Is it compulsary to celebrate Independence day function at official premises only? or can the citizen of the country celebrate Independence Day wherever he likes
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
Is it necessary to penalise the employees for their absence even if it did not cause any inconvenience to the employer
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
can the employer penalise the employees for not attending the function even if their absence did not cause any inconvenience for the smooth conduct of the function and the employees were not provided any specific task to be performed for the conduct of the Independence day function?
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
It is painful to hear that the employees have to listen to the ÓRDER of the employer and always act in "'subordination'" to the employer like a slave in an Independent country.
Guest
(Expert) 05 September 2018
Painful or not painful, you simply have to understand the relation of employer-employee, as a master-servant relation. You are paid for carrying out orders of your master, not for acting at your sweet will in defiance of orders of your employer.
My reply to your query was quite clear. Your insistence to bring legal aspect, itself, makes clear that you are seeking for answer to your academic question. However, if you want to check legality of employer's action, you may feel free to file a case in the court of law against your employer. But, thereafter, besides getting legal answer to your query through the verdict of the court of law,. be ready also for getting fired from service for serious misconduct in employment.
Of course, it is a matter of pity, if you cannot spare just a few moments for the honour of the national flag merely on two national days in a year.
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
As a citizen of the country, I have highest regard to the national flag, but the insistence of the employer not sparing any personal incoveniences which we may face makes it clear that there is no dignity of labour in this country and makes it clear the employer-employee relationship is that of a master and a slave and slave has no choice but to do slavery
Srinivas
(Querist) 05 September 2018
sir, what is your conclusion, is the above said deduction tenable in law?
Guest
(Expert) 05 September 2018
With your insistence to speak on law, I am fully convinced that yours is not a real problem. There is no use in repeating the query time and again. Even if I make you happy by stating that the action is illegal or give you unpleasant information about the action to be not illegal, what benefit you will get is not made clear by you.
However, for your information, law does not interfere in the executive actions in the cases of indiscipline unless proved biased or illegal under the provisions of law. Administrative action can be labeled as irregular, but not illegal
So, if not satisfied with my reply, I have already suggested you to approach the court of law to get a clear legal verdict on your question for your mental satisfaction.
Srinivas
(Querist) 06 September 2018
Sir thanks for your kind reply. I beg to state that ours is a real problem and not a hypothetical situation. but since we don't infer any specific law under which deduction can be made by the employer we will consider the option of legal recourse after considering the economic viability since it is only one day's salary or else we have to accept the hard reality ( with due respect to the law of the land) that it is always made in favour of the employer and we will continue to work as slaves to the master. There is no need to make anyone happy or unhappy - it would be just that once you have joined any employment you are a slave of that employer and do what he says without legality or illegality of the actions.
Guest
(Expert) 06 September 2018
If could not spare a few moments in honour of your country's flag, why become slave of your employer? Must file a case in the court of law to get justice and to give him lesson and also to prove that not you, but the employer must act as a slave of his employees and must also act according to the wishes of his employees. After all, it is a matter of principle, why an employee of free India should act as a slave to his employer. Irrespective of paying salary to his employees, why your employer should not act according to the whims and fancy of his employees. You must set an example of being a model employee of the free India.
Best of luck !!
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 September 2018
Generally when employer is benevolent then employees have to invest energy for fighting on such petty issues/non-issues.
If employer always keeps them on run then they have no time for such matters.,
Now in this case had the employer asked to open office on normal working then they could have been punishable. They held Independence Day celebrations and nothing else (as appearing from your description).
Needless to say if some stray employees are not able to make then the employer will not bother. Apparent there may had been mass abstinence then employer would have felt need to take some action.
Now you are asking "LAW".
What action they took?
Mere deduction of a day salary. The employer acted leniently/negligently.
As hinted by Mr Dhingra there could have been formal chargesheet and Inquiry and depending upon merits of the case any penalty from "censure" to dismissal from service" could have been awarded.
Those dismissed would have been an example for others. If at all reinstated after a lot of time and having spent a lot or money by then the employer could have curbed indiscipline fully.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 September 2018
You also need to know that top officers of Armed forces and IAS/IPS officers are also required to be on the chair on Independence day or Republic Day. They have no choice.
They do not have the liberty as you are claiming. If you feel that your service conditions are stronger than theirs then you can proceed to enrich any lawyer.
Srinivas
(Querist) 06 September 2018
sir from the above discussion thanks for making me to understanding the relationship of employer and employee.
from the above discussion i can infer that employees from this country have no option but to work as a slave or be ready for punishment for allegations of insubordinations even for not attending functions not in the regular course of discharge of their duties.
Srinivas
(Querist) 06 September 2018
Then we should see the option of working in nations where there is equitable justice and liberty for the employees
Srinivas
(Querist) 06 September 2018
There is "Pride and Prejudice" both mixed in this case - it seems that the law in this country is tailored to the needs of the employers and to make employees work as slaves. So, the employees have no choice but to act in accordance with the superior orders whether it is a national holiday or paid holiday or be ready to face the wrath of the employer for acts of insubordination.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 September 2018
India is one of the countries were employees' indiscipline is taken lightly as happened in your case.
You have not seen the plight of those working abroad.
Guest
(Expert) 06 September 2018
Mr. Srinivas,
You are mistaken. Law is not tailored to the needs of the employers, but is tailored to the needs of the smart persons, who can prove their stand, may be just or unjust. You seem to be a smart person. So, why not take the lead to prove your stand before the court of law on filing a your case?
But must understand, no country tolerates undisciplined employees, as their citizens or immigrants. If liked, you may try your luck in some other country, where you feel to get equitable justice by working at your own whims & fancy. Equitable justice is each individual's mental concept just to suit their tastes. If you can find any drawback in law for not being made for equitable justice, why not take the lead to get that quashed. Your own elected leaders make or abolish the laws. You can approach your area MP to take up your case in the Parliament to get the law abolished, which is not in your favour.
But rest assured, by making all fuss by continuing with your vague posts, you will still not be able to get spoon feeding to solve your academic question. For that you have to take trouble to find the answer from your own course material.
Srinivas
(Querist) 07 September 2018
Dear Dhingra sir,
I cannot argue with a knowledgeable senior counsel like you. but I still could not get answer for my original question - whether such deduction has any legal sanctity? Certainly we are not acting according to our whims and fancies and no employer would tolerate that and moreover we are not so insensible to act according to our whims and fancies. so I beg to differ on that matter with your statement. As you have said equitable justice is a subjective matter, so I leave it at that.
Also I thank you for sparing your valuable time for answering my queries with patience.
Thanks for making me understand that the relationship between an employer and an employee is that of a master and a servant (or slave).
If we ask for justice and equitable treatment it is deemed as wishful thinking - so that's the state of affairs - I cannot expect anything better.
Guest
(Expert) 07 September 2018
Mr. Srinivas,
After going through your latest post, now I am 100% sure that it is not a real problem. If you are unable to get develop an idea out of my replies that is your own problem and lack of perception. You should not have expected 100% spoon feeding for solving your academic exercise. You could have applied your brain also to find answer from our cues.
In fact, your query does not pertain to any legal problem. It relates to administrative problem on account of executive action of the employer for indiscipline on the part of the employees. No illegality is involved in the administrative action of the employer. Of course that was a wrong course of action.
Even if a real problem, your agitation can cost you very heavily, as wrong action can be rectified by the employer any time in future also by issue of a charge sheet to inflict severe penalty for indiscipline and insubordination on the part of the employees, which may also affect his promotional avenues. Even if you challenge the action of recovery of salary of national holiday in the court of law, you may be able to get refund, but the court will not bar the employer to take severe disciplinary action by issue of a charge sheet to penalize you heavily. If you prefer that, you may feel free to agitate on the issue. That is your own outlook.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 07 September 2018
People are working abroad for 12-15 hours with a little tea break and not able to earn enough to have a decent living. A larger part of savings is wasted on show off when they come to India when employment is slack.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 07 September 2018
Anyway you have already been well advised (FREE OF COST) that your salary deduction is justified and a very lenient action as compared to harsh action which could have been taken.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 08 September 2018
If interested to leave India to work in rich country see the plight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcepyifwmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OokCk0w69LM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2-asOQXXuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFjAj-RxSGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ue_ansTK4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1anJgDYSPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nt-Z8QDF-0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6sMNTeuZ40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuNBJBjzfo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERyNmUvKJCk
more so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBrSYJ22q0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krzax_cGLJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20v1TDluJ8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q3k4L1mKsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyYtv719-ug
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 08 September 2018
you can note that today Delhi Govt has cancelled 2nd Saturday off for teachers in Govt schools.
Srinivas
(Querist) 08 September 2018
the law of this country is made in favour of the employers as suggested by the above learned counsels and the employee is left at the mercy o the employer and is bound to act as a slave of his master or face the wrath of the employer even for frivolous things as not attending a function held by the employer and I thank you for your benevolence in extending your kind advise that such acts of the employer is justified in law and the employee is always a slave.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 08 September 2018
you can see the links of you tube posted above and enlighten yourself as to how mercilessly work is taken from Indians workers who believe Indian not to be a suitable country for work.
In India indiscipline of employee is normally taken lightly as in your case. You have been let off with a mere deduction of one day wages just without any punitive action by employer.
K Rajasekharan
(Expert) 08 September 2018
Deduction of one day wage is tenable in law.
This is because it is a fundamental duty of an employee to attend office on Independence Day and Republic Day, as per judicial orders. Please see an order at https://www.livelaw.in/kerala-hc-makes-it-mandatory-for-all-government-staffs-and-officers-to-attend-national-day-functions/
As you have to attend the celebrations on those days compulsorily it is inappropriate for the employer to allow leave on those days. Rather they deduct one day’s salary to compel all the employees to attend such functions without lapse.
On days of declared strikes of employees, the ongoing practice is to deduct the day’s salary ( by declaring dies non = means no work no pay ) for absence rather than allowing leave on those days which is as per rules. This is just like that ( here the doctrine is 'no attendance, no pay') and hence perfectly legal as they had given you prior notice and made it part of the rule by issuing an order in sync with what the high court says as above. If you approach the court it will, most probably, reinforce it in stronger terms.
Srinivas
(Querist) 09 September 2018
Rajasekharan sir, - does the same analogy applies to the private sector also - does the verdict of kerala HC holds good for the private cooperative bank?
The circular to deduct one day's wages was given post deduction. Only a regular circular to attend the function was given
so it is a sad state of affairs that employees of this nation have to stay suppressed to the whims and fancies of the employer and obey the order of the employer at any cost
Srinivas
(Querist) 09 September 2018
is this a liberal nation? when we are forced to attend on a declared public holiday
Guest
(Expert) 09 September 2018
You are just wasting time of experts by unduly stretching the thread by vague questions one after the other. Your present question, "is this a liberal nation? when we are forced to attend on a declared public holiday," does not have any legal angle to be replied. You can ask your question from the Ministry of Home Affairs, directly through RTI or from your own area MP.
Now my question to you is, Are you really an Indian citizen or a Pakistani with an assumed name of an Indian? Must reply with your full honesty.
However, if you are not satisfied with your living in this country, you can feel free to migrate to some other country, where you can enjoy total liberty at the cost of your employer, but not be questioned on not following instructions of the employer. Else, forget about any job to serve any employer, as for you, your liberty to enjoy is important, not the liberty of your employer, who pays you the money for your bread and butter. Mind it, your employer enjoys a liberty to throw you out of his service also, if you do not follow his instructions.
Rest assured, 100% spoon feeding for solution to your academic question cannot be given by the experts.
YOU MUST ALSO KNOW, HOLIDAYS ARE NOT THE RIGHT OF THE EMPLOYEE, BUT ARE ALWAYS AT THE VOLITION & OPTION OF THE GOVERNMENT. CAN YOU SAY, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ENJOY ABSENCE FROM OFFICE ON THAT DAY HAD THE HOLIDAY OF INDEPENDENCE DAY NOT BEEN DECLARED BY THE GOVERNMENT?
Best of luck to a disgruntled presumptive employee. NOW STOP DISGRUNTLING ANY MORE
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 09 September 2018
come what you may try.
you cannot force experts to say what you want.
even if you pay a lawyer heavily and want him to say what you want he may not do so unless he wants you to drag in litigation and mint money.
if you feel your service conditions are more strong than Govt officials (I gave you example of top ranking) you can go ahead.
Let your employer correct his mistake next time.
and why next time despite deduction of salary employer can still initiate disciplinary proceeding and after inquiry can exercise option for throwing you out).
K Rajasekharan
(Expert) 09 September 2018
It is not the high court order that your employer employed in your organisation to deduct the one day salary but the employer’s order issued in furtherance of the crux of what is stated in the court verdict.
When something is a fundamental duty of employees under the constitution, it should be made applicable to all employees, irrespective of whether the employee is in private sector or in public sector, through appropriate regulatory mechanism known to law.
There is no logic in discriminating one sector from the other in enforcing a duty that comes under the constitution.
If anyone is aggrieved they can just go to the court and try their luck. There is no point in repeating one thing again and again here in this forum.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 09 September 2018
abroad post 60 sr citizen indians working in rain as farm labourers abroad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFjAj-RxSGQ
They are enthusiastic for Indians to see their plight before deciding to act on idea floated by you.
Srinivas
(Querist) 09 September 2018
Dear Sudhir sir,
Sorry I am not forcing the experts to say what I want to. Everyone is free to give their own opinion. Any expert on this panel has the complete liberty to argue in favour of the employer and nobody is stopping anyone from doing so. Since I am not an expert in law like you, I just raised my query to find out whether the actions of the employer is tenable in law and expressed my views on that. If we have to live like slaves of the employer so be it . Now it can be proven beyond doubt that the laws are made in favour of the employer and the employee cannot expect to get justice from such a system. Some experts are even ordering me to stop asking any further queries just proves that they want to curtail individual liberty and toe the line of the majoritism and thank you expert for making personal remarks about my nationality
Guest
(Expert) 09 September 2018
Great person with great ambitions, but is dependent on petty jobs to earn his livelihood. He seems to be fond of enjoying liberty and freedom at the cost of the employer and also wishes that his employer should not have any liberty to question him for not obeying his instructions for which he gets paid by his employer.
Constitution of free India does not guarantee any right to act arbitrarily to any anyone, who is paid by his employer. Even the President of India, who is the topmost authority of the Indian Government, and the Chief Justice of India are subject to impeachment by the 2/3rd majority of the people's representatives (MPs) in the Parliament, if they prefer to work arbitrarily, like this great fellow, in the name of liberty and freedom. Does this fellow mean to convey that they are also slaves?
Srinivas
(Querist) 10 September 2018
I beg to disagree with your comments. I never said i will not disobey the orders of the employer nor did I say I will work arbitrarily. you have drawn the analogy too far to chief justice and president by comparing normal employees of a private organisation to that of people who hold high positions in government office. Iam not asking anyone to work arbitrarily nor to abstain from work in the garb of freedom and liberty. what Inference we can drawn from the above discussion is that the employee shall always toe the line of the employer at all costs and must succumb himself to any oppression by the majoritism laws made in favour of the employer.
Srinivas
(Querist) 10 September 2018
the Inference:
Employees who gets paid by his Employer shall act in accordance with the orders of the employer.
So we should just do what the employer says. Let it be a national or local holiday.
The employee (slave) has no right to protest since he is paid by his employer (master).
I will do whatever my employer says me to do since I am being paid my him.
Guest
(Expert) 10 September 2018
When you are such a learned person, who can disagree with the experts' advice, where was the need to put your question at this forum. No objection, you can continue living with your own assumptions. But rest assured, you should not expect the experts to give you 100% spoon feeding for preparing an answer to your academic query.
Srinivas
(Querist) 12 September 2018
Dear Sirs,
I am not disagreeing on the expert's advise but on the personal comments passed on me. I am not making any assumptions on my own I am asking where is the freedom when the law is made in favour of the "HAVE's" against the "HAVE NOT'S". All the experts can stand behind the employer and argue in their favour - no problem -because the law is such suited to their needs- that's the law -either we have to live with it or leave this place. But at the end of the day all the experts are hell bent on proving that the employee is a slave of the employer to obey his order at all costs.
Coming to the spoon feeding comments, I have not forced any experts to answer my queries on this forum . If they want to answer only to expert's questions, its their choice; let them exchange knowledge among the experts only before making comments on the layman. I will follow your last advice that you should not expect spoon feeding advise for this query since you consider this as frivolous and academic.
Guest
(Expert) 12 September 2018
You seem to be feeling pleasure and liberty in stretching the thread without any purpose.
However, surely, you can start for searching of a place, where HAVES enjoy total liberty and do not have to obey the instructions of their superiors. But for that purpose, you will have to abandon the idea of earning livelihood by resigning from your job on which you feel to be a slave of your employer.
Mind it, every one of the HAVES is also a slave of some one or the other, in your own terms. Even in your own home, you may also not be enjoying total liberty to act and behave arbitrarily without any feeling of being a slave (in your own terms) to some one of the elders, e.g., parents, wife, and other elders. If not, you can be a slave to one or the other bad habit, including being a work shirker or not caring for your elders and seniors, or making hue and cry by making a mountain out of a mole..
Of course, it is certain that you don't have the capacity and capability to migrate to Moon or Mars, or be ready to start living an isolated life in some jungle. Even in your solitary life in jungle, you will not be feeling total liberty, as you would always be prone to attack by the fierce wild animals. Of course those animals would be quite at liberty to attack you at any time while living in jungle.
Anyway, best of luck! However, when you find any such place in this world where you can find total liberty for the people to act at their own without listening to anyone, must inform everyone through this forum, so that others, like you, may also be able to migrate to that world and enjoy total liberty.
