Employor can recover any losses after the employee exit
srinivas
(Querist) 11 August 2017
This query is : Open
Dear All,
i have been worked for the Denmark base logistics company for the period of 7 years.
after i resigned from the company have served my 30 days notice period and signed all the company Exit forms as per the company norms.
later after 30 days when i called HR for the F N F, i understand my have received cheque from HO but it was holded by the product head who is my immediate manger while am working for that company.
have called for the discussion and i understand there are one loss from the shipment which i quoted the rates, same need to be recover from my settlement,
have explained its not because of negligence and its handling issues by other colleagues, and same need to be take up with concern vendor and close the case., but they are holding my F N F cheque and understand until the vendor gives the credit note, if not they will recover from my F N F.
now question is , will it be possible to recover the loss after employee exit the company as per company policies,
on Emplyee exit interview and forms, now where discussed this issue and no where its mentioned too,
if not what kind of actions can employee take on legally.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
Has this loss been communicated to you in writing?
Do you have copies of notice of resignation and final resignation and POD/acknowledgment of both, acceptance of both, NOC/NDC of each dept issued to you, exit forms signed for you,.................FnF statement?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
Same Query:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/forum/Employer-recover-after-resigned-and-exit-from-co-152793.asp
srinivas
(Querist) 11 August 2017
Hi thanks for your reply
yes i have all the supportings with me.
srinivas
(Querist) 11 August 2017
Also the loss was not at all discussed with me when i was working or while am searving notice period or the last day of working while filing the exit forms. After a month when i called for F N F they said its under hold ny the manager. Nothing given in writting.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 11 August 2017
In the given circumstances company may not release your F&F easily.
Regularly send them registered letter and emails for sending your dues.
Do not state / give any reference that they have conveyed you regarding any recovery etc.
srinivas
(Querist) 11 August 2017
Legaly the company can hold like this?
What will be the time frame needed file the legal case if required and what will be the procedures?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
Dear LCI Querist @ Mr. Srinivas,
The time frame can only be predicted upto an extent by a very able LOCAL counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in Labor/Service matters and appropriate forum can be ascertained after examining your employment related docs and nature of duties on record..............
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
It seems that you have given up the hope and effort just against some verbal communication made to you and are NO MORE relying on your own skills of building irrefutable written record, persuasion, persistence, reasoning, negotiations and are also not applying your goodwill and rapport build while in employment.
Employee should capitalize on skills and build irrefutable written record for future use.............at appropriate time in appropriate forum.
Although you have posted that 'you have all supportings with you', you may share the same with your LOCAL counsel(s), as already suggested, for a considered opinion....................
Discussing with a counsel is neither misconduct ( more so you are not in employment with same employer), nor litigation.............nor precursor to litigation.........
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
The HR personnel might not be authorized to sign on letterhead of the company and affix company seal. You alone would know that.
One Perspective: You may write by letter thru Redg . Post to the good offices of Appointing Authority,MD,CEO in India, narrating your good conduct, integrity, character displayed during employment, all awards/rewards/commendations conferred on you, incentives/performance, and that NO stinker/memo/SCN was ever issued to you............... and ask to supply the acknowledgment/acceptance of of both notice of resignation/final resignation,NOC/NDC of each dept issued to you, exit forms signed for you, CORRECT FnF statement (showing computation of earned wages/bonus/incentives/reimbursements/leave encashment/OT etc etc, payment of FnF dues as per CORRECT FnF statement, service certificate, relieving letter (with good comments), salary slips of all months, PF a/c number and slips of all years, ESIC card, Form16, handover of charge/assets etc etc by Redg. post and may even mention that postage prepaid self addressed envelope is attached for sending cover to you containing above?
Avoid HR person/personnel that are trying to entangle you.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
You may mention that NO email may be sent to you.
Another Perspective: You may communicate from personal email to good offices and let them reply whatever they want and you can counter it with supportings and facts mentioned by you e.g; you were neither a party nor responsible for the said loss..............and reiterate your demands/requirements..............
This may take some time and in the interim you may be able to build irrefutable written record and exhaust internal remedies and approach appropriate form....
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
Another Perspective; Are you a member of any employee's/trade unions?
If yes seek their support.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
Or Legal notice may drill sense into the heads.............
Or approach higher officials in Dept. of Labor, Grievance Redressal Committee........
Or Court of law can decide on merits in time frame that can not be predicted and might depend upon ability of your counsel and workload in courts................
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 August 2017
The HR person/personnel seems to have avoided written communication............
It could be due to the unsaid/unpublished custom that dues of outgoing employee may not be paid on one or another or flimsy grounds..............
Guest
(Expert) 11 August 2017
No use of discussing your problem here. Further, any legal notice may aggravate your case to further extent by tending to offend the management and compelling them to take some rigid stand against you.
For the present, before the recovery is actually enforced, you have the need to convince the product head by personal discussions on the issues, if you believe that the negligence was on the part of the other colleagues.
srinivas
(Querist) 11 August 2017
Dear Kumar
Thanks for your reply and suggetions.
Its just a start and not final.
Have already in discussion with the management and they have taken time for a week.
Hope i can settle locally if not i can escalate to HO too.
But just to know better have posted this in forum.
Since i have worked for this company for 7 years and joined as executive and resigned as dy.manager. but my question is while exiting every thing is clear as per the records. HO also released FNF cheque. But one person is holding it. Nit understanding how one company can hold the final settlement with out any
Information....
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 12 August 2017
Did you agree to grant time period of 1 week?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 12 August 2017
It is entirely your prerogative to name any other employee.
If you can avoid, avoid.
Don't fall into traps more so verbal ones....
Hope you have the copy of SOP.
You may simply communicate on the basis of SOP and remain firm that you are neither the party to process nor involved....
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 12 August 2017
The Imp. task at the moment is to take your next/current employer in confidence...
Does your next employer agree to absorb you without service certificate, relieving letter, FNF settlement/statement, clear BGV from past employer......................and on the strength of copy of notice of resignation+final resignation and at the most It's POD?
Does it agree that it won't ask for any affidavit from you to affirm that you shall supply service certificate, relieving letter etc within...................days or your employment can be terminated?
Have you appraised next employer during interview verbally/in employment application that current employer has notice period of 3 months..................and have you mentioned joining period of 3 months?
Have you appraised next employer that current employer may not give you clear BGV and may post adverse comments due to reason that you shall not be serving full notice period?
Will your next employer still support you and let you remain in employment and will not terminate you?
Take your next employer in confidence to accept you on strength of copy of notice of resignation, final resignation and their POD and to stand by you if current employer does not provide any of the other docs as mentioned above and does not clear BGV or posts adverse comments, since you did not agree to serve full notice period.
Take current employer (anyone in line management/HR/admin/good offices of appointing authority/MD/CEO/Board/ employee’s-trade unions/Works Committee/Grievance Redressal Committee………………..and even if Labor Inspectorate/O/o Labor Commissioner/Higher officials of Dept. of Labor etc etc …. that can settle the matter of ego/conflict with said person that is holding your FnF payout cheque………………..in confidence to relieve you with good comments
Employee (you) can submit FnF statement (under proper acknowledgment) , as perceived by employee and ask good offices of employer to check and confirm it as correct............
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 12 August 2017
Generically Speaking: Even as Dy. Manager you might still be covered by various enactments................
The FnF wages, more so in case of employees that have tendered notice period and provided employer with set time to put IT's house in order and complete exit formalities,handover formalities, FnF formalities,.....................should be ideally paid on LWD or say in next 3 days or max. by usual pay day..............
The employer is liable to pay.
If by ant policy/rule the said branch man is not empowered to pay or block payment then he/she can not.
The roadblock created is either eye wash or deliberate to claim that FnF was duly processed and released but local BM did not clear the exit...........
srinivas
(Querist) 28 August 2017
Dear Kumar,
GOOD evening
Further to above my postings.
12. 08.2017 have tried reachout HR but not suceded and written email to HR at Bangalore Branch on 16.08.2017. Have received the reply on 17. 8.17 from Branch HR stating he is still waiting approval from mangement. Same day have escalated to corporate office HR at Mumbai and explained the actual situation. Up to 22nd of Aug i have not received and finally have called to Corporate HR and she told she will check with Branch and revert to me same day. Unfortunate i dint get any call or reply on my email.
Again i sent follow up email to Corporate HR with copy to BM and My Manager. l have received reply from Branch as per below
________________________
Dear Srinivas,
As I have been updating you over phone, it took a few more days to arrive at a decision post conducting a detailed evaluation by the management regarding the issues pertaining to respective shipments.
Please note that we will be recovering the amount from your F & F settlement and will be releasing balance amount as per the scrutinised decision made by the management towards the loss incurred due to your operational negligence.
Your gratuity cheque is getting ready. Will keep you posted shortly.
_________________________________________________
based on the above message have reached HR and asked him how it can be recover with out discussion. But he told me that wt ever updates received from Management he just passed to me and he is helpless.
Have replied as per below to All the persons with copy to MD
======================================
Dear Ambareesh,
Thanks for your email,
am surprised to see your below email stating�recovering the amount from your F & F settlement and will be releasing balance amount as per the scrutinised decision made by the management towards the loss incurred due to your operational negligence.
Its clear that no one from your management & HR team �shown much interest to study & resolve this issue.
The below issue which you mentioned as operational negligence, but i was a part of procurement team since Jan 2017 to until my resignation and LWD which is 04.07.2017.
More than that you or your�management has already came for the�decision�to recover the losses with out discussing & not proving with the employee that it is his negligence, nor you or your corporate HR or your department head �not called me for the discussion till date.
I came to know this issue on 08.08.2017 (after month of my LWD) and visited your office and cleared my end as its not my mistake and you and your management taken 2 days time to check with vendor and close this issue internally, later the dates have been exchanged with out any results and finally your management came for decision of recovery!!!!
Below are my questions to you or your management who decided to recover the losses from employee. .
1.������� The rates was quoted in the month of June 2017 (16.06.2017 but not sure the date), have resigned to my job on DSV on 05.06.2017 �and continued with notice period � have personally approached product head stating procurement will be commercials and self will be relieved from the procurement job immediately since its commercials� but he forced me to continue in the same role why?? To reduce his work & will it is my negligence??
2.������� My last working day� in DSV on 04.07.2017, the rates quoted in the month of June, while signing the my exit form, its your product head or department head responsibility �to cross check all the handovers which have done me and any issues should have noticed to my notice �before sighing the form. In my case department head signed the form in front of Branch HR and product head. Will it be my negligence??
3.������� I have not received any written email / letter or Memo for the discussion from you or your management (DSV) for the losses which we are talking today or while F N F why??
4.������� Have your management tried to prove with employee that this issue because of negligence?? Did the employee accepted??? With out that how you can your management go for recovery being a reputed company??
5.������� Now you or your management is discussing about losses because of only rates quoted by me, how about the profits made by me in my tenure of 7 years ( 6.8 years) ?? Will it be returned to employee.
Last question is
I understand their are 02 containers which booked with DSV from the Jindal to Cleveland in the month of June, while quoting the rates in the month of Jan 17 have given clear operation instructions that how to place the booking ( same email sent to Vimal By Mr. Shravan on 08.08.2017). same was not followed, if the same followed at least liner would have reverted that DSV has the contract rates now which earlier was not there. Same was not followed by operator and how it will be my mistake?? The third container was booked with DSV in the month of July 27th 2017.
Where my last working day on 04.07.2017, how i will be accountable for this losses??
Also understand while booking 3rd container the Operator or product head informed to sales that the rates as per last month with out checking,
This is called negligence as per knowledge what i have!!!
I need clarifications / explanations for my above questions and also you should prove with employee that his mistake or error because of negligence and taken in writing before you recover from employee FNF.
Awaiting you or� your management understanding on my above email.
====================================
Have tried to reach out the Branch HR on 24.08 and informes i want to meet BM. He asked me to come to office. Have reached to office and waited for 2 hrs. Later i understand The BM is busy and he will meet me on Monday that is today.
When i called todY to HR he checked with BM and told me BM will be busy up to first week of next month. He cane able to meet inly afterthat.
Dear Experts
need your support and advise for how to go further in this case to get my F & F on urgent basis. Since i need this money for my regular things.
Pls support.
srinivas
(Querist) 29 August 2017
Dear experts still waiting for your advise on above
