Copying in final exams
Rani
(Querist) 28 December 2017
This query is : Open
A final year LLB student has complained to the invigilator about two students discussing and writing the final semester exams. She states she has seen them do this from the 1st semester to the last. Each time the invigilators have turned a blind eye to this act of two students.
She has complained to the invigilator but invigilator did not take any action.
There are CCTV cameras installed in tshe classroom, but she says there is no recording equipment in the college office, just they have installed CCTV cameras.
She states she has complained to the principal, asking them to throw both the copying students out, instead of throwing those students, principal threw the complaining student out.
Student has complained to squad, the squad has told that warning will be given.
Student is not satisfied. She wants to complain to appellate authority which is the University Registrar.
She has complained in writing but no action so far has been taken.
In this case what to do? Whom to complain next?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 28 December 2017
she has no cause of action, that too without proof if the college does not want to stop copying.
now she may move to High Court.
Sankaranarayanan
(Expert) 28 December 2017
how you related to this query? with proper evidence and proof she can move to court,
P. Venu
(Expert) 28 December 2017
Are you the person who has complained?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 28 December 2017
CCTV without recording?
The invigilator and Principle should have acted.
Has complainant lodged complaint under proper acknowledgment?
Has complainant been thrown out (as posted) by a written communication?
In any case if concerned official/Dept in Univ has not acted then escalate to VC, Chancellor, UGC and/or discuss with a very able senior LOCAL counsel of unshakable repute and integrity specializing in such/civil matters and having a successful track record and show and docs on record for a considered opinion.
Rani
(Querist) 28 December 2017
It is me who complained. Today also there were exams, today not just two people discuss and write exams, but entire classroom full of students were discussing and writing.
Invigilator was present. The squad person whom I complained yesterday came and asked me to show who those two students were, who were copying yesterday. I showed them. He simply saw their faces and went away.
I am beginning to feel that there is no use pursuing Law. I wanted to study Law so that I can be help to people who are helpless, with these kind of cheats in law colleges and invigilators turning blind eye to copying, it is no wonder that clients and litigants are taken for a ride and cheated by lawyers.
These type of students if they become advocates, they will become crooks who will suck blood of clients in the future and make them commit suicide by not getting them justice in court.
Sadly nobody from the university replied. I have written email to vice chancellor, registrar of the university.
To my amazement it appeared as if that all the students who had come to give exam had talked to each other previously and took oath that they will discuss and write exams and let us see if she (me) complains to principal again? Today I did not go to the principal to complain. I felt it is below my dignity to speak to someone who has no dignity himself (remember he asked me to get out yesterday?).
For pursuing this matter if I have to go to high court, it will be waste of time and also waste of money.
There is no justice at all anywhere in india.
For each and everything if one should go to high court?
The proof that I have got is the email I sent to the VC and Registrar.
I don’t know whether it is correct to discuss this matter here. But today all are looking at me as if I am a criminal when I went to college to give exam. It is frustrating. Shall I write to PM? Or education minister of the state? Please guide.
If this is the plight of a student, what will be the plight of scores of people who go seeking justice standing in court hall doors please think and reply.
P. Venu
(Expert) 28 December 2017
I do not know where your college is. But still, these incidents have nothing to do with your mettle in practising law. Perhaps, these incidents are a pointer to the things you would encounter not in the profession, but in the larger life.
Rani
(Querist) 28 December 2017
Venu Sir,
I know what is my mettle. I know how to help people with help of Law.
I dont need lecture about what things are in store for me in the entire world.
I have already seen enough. No doubt there are crooks in this world.
People who cannot solve their problems and disputes go and stand in front of court. Having belief that court will give solution. Court will give solution through lawyers. Lawyers represent clients and file petition. I have seen hundreds of people getting cheated by advocates. I took up studying law so that someone somewhere will get proper help and guidance and also justice through me, not like getting by some crooked lawyer who eats up money and keeps looking for more without doing any work.
The basic nature of a person who is a lawyer must be to help people, even though lawyers take fees, it should not be their main motive. Main motive is service motive.
By your reply you are supporting crooks who cheat in exams to become advocates some day, what you see in sprout, that will be tree. These cheats if they are let out to become advocates they will only suck blood of innocent people who go to court thinking that they will get justice.
Through these kind of rascals, the people of this country will lose furthr hope in judiciary.
I joined law course to change the judiciary system and to mainly change the belief/faith that the people are losing in the judiciary.
I expect some sane reply. SO I will wait for other seniors to reply.
Rani
(Querist) 29 December 2017
Today 29/12/2017, principal called meeting. Made everyone sit in front of him. And began making allegations against me.
He say he running college from 1976, but nobody complained against college or any lecturer. He came to beat me. He threatened me to break my bones and legs if I come to college again. All were watching simply, some tried to stop him come near me.
I contacted the registrar evaluation over phone and reported the incident. He asked me to give police complaint and seek police protection.
If raising voice against malpractice will lead to breaking bones what to do?
Anyway I have given complaint to police. Don’t know what they will do.
I am scared. Help me.
Guest
(Expert) 29 December 2017
Ms. Rani,
No police case becomes due without breaking of bones by the principal. He must have threatened hundreds of students to break their bones since the year 1976, but he seems to be quite intact so far. It seems, no other student would have acquired such a mettle for the last 41 years, as you have. If the principal says nobody complained against college or lecturer ever since the year 1976, I believe you have the opportunity to celebrate the occasion, as you have set up a new record that nobody could do so far for the last 41 years.
If you think your story is true (mine is different) and also know your mettle and don't also need lecture, as you assumed in response to the advice of Mr. P. Venu, you really don't deserve any kind of advice from any of the experts here. In fact, when you know your mettle, you should have gone direct to some very renowned local lawyer of your own town and got some pacca arrangement to put your principal behind bars.
But, there is a great contradiction in your statement. On one hand you pretend to know your mettle, but on the other you have stated, "I AM SCARED. HELP ME". I wonder to know, you know your mettle, but scared and seek help also, how that gives any sense. PLEASE DON'T MIND, both cannot be true at a time.
if you have come here for help, you must be humble in your submission. YOUR INSULTING TOME FOR Mr. P. VENU IS DISGUSTING AND UNCALLED FOR. Question arises, why you should not be thankful to him, if he has wasted his precious time and infrastructure cost in responding to your query free of cost by using his knowledge. You could have humbly clarified his points.
Frankly speaking, people pretending to know their mettle and not needing any lecture do not deserve free advice.
Rani
(Querist) 29 December 2017
Venu Sir and Jigyasu Sir,
I am sorry. I know whom to complain. I have gathered all evidence of what happened in the meeting with the principal. The principal was behaving as a rowdy.
He wanted to make the lecturers hold my hand and write down apology letter and state that I want TC from principal. I took the paper but I ran out of the office of the principal out of fear.
There were 15-16 people, lecturers, office staff and class D workers also. What if they had manhandled me or beaten me or even raped me? Should I not be scared.
However the registrar of evaluation whom I spoke to, advised me to approach police. I approached and given complaint in writing. Now I have to do follow up of the complaint.
Any advice from anyone will be only of help.
If I being Law student go to advocate locally? Seeking help? That itself will be shameful. I dont have money to pay fees if I have to leave the college mid-term.
This I will fight out, even if I die I dont care. I have informed my mom and dad regarding my decision.
I will see to it that either the college is closed or the university itself is closed or those to crooks thrown out of college. I will try to gather ideas how to resolve this problem. Thank you.
Guest
(Expert) 29 December 2017
From your latest post, particularly when you state, "I will see to it that either the college is closed or the university itself is closed or those to crooks thrown out of college. I will try to gather ideas how to resolve this problem," it reveals that you believe in destruction, rather than improvement in system.
When you have already decided the destructive way, why you expect the experts to associate you unethically in adding fuel to the fire to ease destruction?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 29 December 2017
Some persons do have trouble.
some persons do not have trouble and have to create one.
Rani
(Querist) 29 December 2017
Honesty is best policy – I learnt it in 1st standard. I firmly believe in it and practice it entire life.
A lawyer first needs to be honest. Only then he can help people get justice through court. This is explained by various authors from Krishnaswami Aiyer to Justice Shiv Narayan Dhingra.
These are explained under professional ethics and conduct.
Copying in exam is cheating. It will give false picture of a students knowledge.
I have been in court halls for many years. I have been cheated by advocates, my entire family on various occasions have been cheated by advocates. They simply did not file any case and simply took money from both sides, from our side and also opposite side. This is not just my story, but story of scores of people.
Why should advocates cheat? They should work on basis of their conscience. If they cheated in their profession, it only shows how good was their education in school and college. Law colleges are places of birth of lawyers. If copying and cheating runs in law colleges, what will law students learn?
They will think that chalta he. Sabkuch chalta he. Cheating kia toh chalta he. Tomorrow client they will cheat in same spirit and tell chalta he. If such students are not taught a lesson now, others also wont learn any lesson, that cheating should not be done.
Anyway this is question of ethics. Not the question of getting into trouble.
If all were to think like Mr Sudhir, who will set right the system?
System cannot be set right without doing correction at birth place. Future Defects can be avoided by tinkering.
If atleast the principal had warned the two cheaters, that would be enough? He did not do that also. He is telling, why simply spoil life of two cheaters. I will spoil your life who spoilt name of college by complaining to VC.
Cheating in exam will not give fair results of candidates. I will fail, they will pass? I wil re-write exam they will copy again and pass?
If someone could guide me how to file writ petition in high court for getting stay on exam results of LLB exams, I will be much grateful.
These crooks have taken it for granted to cheat. Don’t know how many advocates and judges passed out of this college and are fooling clients and general public for past 40 years.
Guest
(Expert) 30 December 2017
Ms. Rani,
Your cause may be right, but your approach was wrong.
Probably, you are grossly mistaken about the term honesty. Honesty is a sort of ethics to be applied on self only, not to act rashly, as a self styled judge, rather a dictator, against other dishonest person with determination to destroy him without having any jurisdiction and authority.
You have reported about copying, you have done your duty, your role was over. Rest depended upon the competent authority (Principal) to see, what action would have been justified. Status of the reporting person also matters much. You should have behaved as a student, but you tried to act like a director or boss over the Principal.
As a law student, probably you forget, the same person cannot be both a prosecutor as well as judge of his own cause. That must also have been taught to you besides teaching on professional ethics and conduct.
If you have been cheated by unethical advocates, you were free to get them booked appropriately, but that does not justify taking revenge from one as of grudge against some particular lawyers.
Let the authorities decide the fate of your complaint. If wrong, that can also be taken care of the trustees of the college, if you approach them, but with full justification and solid evidence. Even during your practice period after qualifying, may you try to become the most honest lawyer, irrespective of your client's case be 100% correct, but in the absence of any solid evidence, you won't be able to get justice for him/her.
You should not forget, law works merely on evidence, can't be expected to work on convictions, assumptions or presumptions.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 30 December 2017
Agreeing with Mr dhingra I will add that better beg for mercy if it is not too late.
Rani
(Querist) 30 December 2017
Respected Dhingra sir and Sudhir sir,
I am a kid in front of you seniors. It is correct that law works on evidence not on conscience.
Atleast a college should be kept sacred and the sanctity of the place, the education institution should be maintained.
My teachers taught me not to lie. Why? Why did they teach me. Only speak the truth?
Why do you think in court oath is given? I will tell truth and nothing but truth. Whatever I say is the truth? Does it oath look like a joke? Perhaps for other people. Not for me. I will tell truth only, always, till the day I die.
For me truth has ultimate power. In whichever way you interpret it or anybody else interprets the truth, truth wont become lie, it will remain truth only.
I stand by my version. Those two students, my classmates have been doing this copying and discussing and writing answers from the 1st semester till now.
If the college has on hard disk on which their acts of copying and discussing along with all others who turn around and ask answers, section numbers, all will be caught. All should be debarred. If there is no hard disk and if it is only live feed, then I don’t know what the university will take action. It is like giving false picture that college has installed cctv cameras but does not have recording option. It will speak volumes about the intention of the college authorities especially the principal.
If everyone but me knows that there is no video recording facility, then I was big fool to complain about malpractice. And it will prove that everyone knew there is no recording facility hence they were jollywell copying, asking neighbor section, clause, tell tell, discussing and writing exam. Because there is no evidence being recorded.
If there is evidence, all the copy cheaters will be caught. And after that what action will the university take against them. What action the university take against principal and the invigilator, is left to them. Or what action the principal will take against those two students, only he knows.
Dear Sudhir sir,
I will not fall at anyones feet nor beg for mercy. I have not commited murder and nobody is going to hang me, that I have to give mercy petition. I have truth on my side. Those two buggers were copying. You should be of moral support to people like me.
Guest
(Expert) 30 December 2017
Ms Rani,
Truth, when is likely to become a curse, has sometime to be held up for some time to be revealed at the opportune time later, or be told in such a fashion that the same be not taken as a matter of prestige or shame for someone, but be taken due notice of for the purpose of rechecking the functioning of the system for the purpose of reformation.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 30 December 2017
who are you to dictate the college should do "X" and not "Y"?
what evidence did you have [forget about hard disk maintained or not maintained by college] that the students were copying?
Rani
(Querist) 31 December 2017
If there is someone truthful in the university. Someone will support my views. If nobody is truthful, that shows there is no more ethics left in these people. Like Dhingra sir has told, it is a curse to be truthful. Ultimately who will benefit from it? Only time will tell. I have done my sincere duty to report a malpractice. If I will be asked to leave, I will ask the same to be given in writing. My fight will not stop till this copying menace stops. One of the lecturer proudly tells that, these copying have been going on since ages. That itself shows how corrupt the system is, and nobody bothered to change it. Conscience of the VC and Registrar, Principal of my college, should decide my fate.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 31 December 2017
So you have decided not to have a law degree which could have been a tool to fight for truth
Rani
(Querist) 31 December 2017
Sudhir Sir,
If someone is honest in the folllowing lot:
1. VC.
2. Registrar.
3. Principal.
4. Staff and lecturers. and truth is found out. Then what action the university will take on the principal, invigilator, squad, I cannot guess. Perhaps they will lose the jobs.
Perhaps they will be given warning and let off.
But on 29.12.17 during CRPC exams in sarada vilas law college, the students have written exam in semi-naked form. Protesting against irregularities by principal and partiality.
How did they allow smartphone in exam hall? Internet can be accessed on smartphone, google gives all answers. One student is turning towards other student in photo. Rest of them all are writing exam. Does this not amount to malpractice or the newspaper photographer was invited to take photos during exam?
https://starofmysore.com/semi-nude-protest-law-students-exam-hall/
I am from another college. My case is I complained about malpractice to principal, invigilator, squad. nobody took actoin. Hence I wrote letter to VC and registrar asking them to take action against malpractice.
Now that I complained to VC, the principal asking me to leave college. I will leave this college sir, but only after those two copy cheaters are punished. Even I dont want to take lessons from teachers who dont have morals. Not one spoke on behalf of me. All shouting at me as if I copied in exam.
If truth will prevail, then what more do I need.
If cant do LLB from this university and they somehow trouble me, I will do law from some other university. Not all people in world can be crooked. Some good people will be there. I will try and find them and connect with them.
Guest
(Expert) 31 December 2017
Sure, you will definitely set example for others.
Rani
(Querist) 01 January 2018
Message deleted as no response from any expert.
Thanks all for your valuable suggestions.
Rani
(Querist) 07 January 2018
Sir,
Till date no reply from registrar or VC or anyone connected to the matter.
I cant keep my mouth shut seeing wrong things happen before my eyes. I will complain. People wont like me complaining. I should get some other college for admission. Where things will go dont know. But I will be ever thankful for the replies I got from the forum. Thank you.
