Defence a1 land
Guest
(Querist) 27 September 2011
This query is : Resolved
Can a Defence A1 land be used to construct a religious structure funded by Private party / from donations by devotees?
To be more specific- In one of the Army Unit a vacant land was seen being utilised for a new structure adjacent to the unit Religious Regimental Institution.
Against my RTI application I was intimated that the structure is merely a modification to that nearby religious Institution , hence required no sanction approval of its plan , expenditures are being met from donations , constructions are not being done by any construction company etc etc.
What are the rule position?
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 28 September 2011
You have already obtained information under RTI Act and if the same is not sufficient or you wan further information, again move another application including rule position therefrom.
Guest
(Querist) 29 September 2011
I fail to understand the advice rendered. Would it be explained for the lay man like me please?
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 30 September 2011
But you did not ask things like a lay man!!
If you come to me then my straight answer is this that if the land belongs to DEFENSE[I DO NOT know WHAT BY a1 YOU MEAN AS A LAY MAN]NO CONSTRUCTION CAN GO ON IT.DEFENSE MUST NOT BE A SILENT EXPECTER.
Can a Defence A1 land be used to construct a religious structure funded by Private party / from donations by devotees?
NO is the answer.
R.Ramachandran
(Expert) 30 September 2011
Dear Mr. Haridas,
You yourself are a retired Army Officer (Brigadier, if I am not mistaken). You should be fairly knowledgeable about the issue. Please tell us, what does the Army/Defence rules say on this. I know for certain, that there are many religious temples/gurdwaras etc., present within the army precincts to help enable the army personal to visit. I am damn sure that such structures would have been there in those places too which were under your control as a Brigadier. What was your stand, did you try to find out what is the legal position. What is your information.
Moreover, when the defence land in question is not being alienated to any private party, how does it matter?
AA RAMAKRISHNAN
(Expert) 30 September 2011
No construction by a private party can be crried out in a land owned/possessed by the defence department unless it is duly approved by the department according to law. No question of any religious structure whatosever funded by any party can be allowed on a defence land. Any old religious structure is present on the land it is the duty of the department to remove or retain it as it is. There is no rule to remove it unless it is necessary to remove because the land is needed for some other purposes. Any addition if it is new can not be permitted on an army land.
Guest
(Expert) 30 September 2011
Agree with experts.
Guest
(Querist) 01 October 2011
In reply to Sri Prabhakar Singh- Armed forces are compartmentalised. Despite being in the Army for more than 30 years in the Corps of EME ( responsible for repairs , recovery & maint of all equipments held in the Army)I am unable to call myself an expert on MES( Military Engineering Service( constructions of new installations/buildings/ institutions and their maintenace) matters.
I have some exposures and based on that premises I have raised the issue with Army authorities and would like to take it to its logical conclusion. Today new construction in the name of langar for 1000 devotees to the adjacent Gurdwara supposedly funded from donations , tomorrow it will be another Adarsh Ghotala.
Guest
(Querist) 01 October 2011
In reply to Sri AA Ramakrishan- Yes sir there are religious institutions in the cantonments now -a-days even open to anybody and everybody.
But I am referring to a new construction which army auth in their reply to my RTI Appl has stated :
That it is being constructed unapproved by any auth, that it is being funded from donations recd , that it is being constructed by Kae Seva like that was done to demolish Babri Masjid for which India is still bleeding.
I am fairly knowledgeable but can't claim to be an expert on the rules and regulation which are handled by MES ( Military Engineering Service). And that's why approached this forum to get some expert advice.Pl do religion out of your mind for some time. It will do good to our beloved country.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 01 October 2011
YOU ARE RIGHT,I UNDERSTAND.
I AM OF FIRM VIEW THAT THESE THINGS CAN NOT GO ON WITHOUT CONNIVANCE,BECAUSE IT CAN NOT BE EVERY BODY DARE TO ENCROACH UPON LAND BELONGING TO ARMY.
Guest
(Querist) 01 October 2011
Sorry My Fault that was intended for Sri R Ramachandran. To sri AA Ramakrishan -In the instant case a brand new construction is coming up adjacent to the unit Gurdwara. And here the RAKSHAKS, the unit commanders are the one who is trying to legitimising construction of that huge new structure without approval as the money is being spent from the donations recd from the devotees regular to that Gurdwara.This is the issue. I need to appeal to the first appellate auth to provide me the correct info along with relevant rules on the issue. I need your expert help formatting my appeal.
R.Ramachandran
(Expert) 01 October 2011
Dear Mr. Haridas,
If you are sure that this is being done without proper approval, why don't you make a complaint to the Higher Authorities in the Army.
Thereafter, you can seek information through RTI as to what was the action taken on your complaint.
If you are not satisfied, then you can approach the Court for a writ of mandamus.
Guest
(Querist) 01 October 2011
Yeah I intend to do it and wait for 22.3 years for the verdict( that's the average time for our Indian court to decide a case.
But before that pl help me to file my appeal to first appellate auth so that enough loose rope is made available to them to get them tied up. Pl help in drafting the appeal .
Guest
(Expert) 01 October 2011
Dear Haridas,
What was the use of asking prematurely from the experts 2-3 years in advance, when the verdict of the case is still awaited? Things can change even 2-3 days earlier.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 01 October 2011
How to write First Appeal under RTI? may it be found useful to you.
First appeal has to be filed within 30 days from date of receipt of decision of CPIO by the applicant with First Appellate Authority (FAA).
If no reply is received within 30 days (35 days if application is lodged with ACPIO) from the date of receipt by CPIO (ACPIO), then first appeal has to be filed within 30 days from the date when reply was due from CPIO.
Find out name, designation and address of first appellate authority from the decision letter of CPIO. If no reply is received, visit the web-site of the govt. dept/office/undertaking and refer RTI icon for these details.
Despite above efforts, if you are not in a position to locate details of FAA, address your first appeal as under:
The First Appellate Authority under RTI Act 2005
C/O.
Head of _______________Dept/office
and mention address of CPIO’s dept/office
If you want to be present during the first appeal hearing, mention it at the end of your appeal.
No fee is prescribed for first appeal for Public Authorities under the Central Government.
Some States have a prescribed fee and a specified format for First Appeal. Please check RTI Rules of individual Sates regarding First Appeal fees (if any), mode of payment, format (if any) if your First Appeal is to a Public Authority falling under State Government. Please visit www.rti.gov.in for details of various states.
All photocopies of enclosures mentioned in the appeal should be self-attested by the applicant under the word ‘Attested’ and full signature.
Retain one set of appeal and postal receipt and AD receipt.
You can deliver personally also, but mailing by registered ad/speed post is preferable. Couriers should be avoided.
FAA has to decide on the appeal within 30 days from the date of receipt of first appeal. He can take a further 15 days (total 45 days), provided he gives the reasons for the delay in writing.
The FAA can give either a "spoken" order or a written order.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 01 October 2011
In Delhi,Rules are provided separately for appeals.Rule applicable is rule3.
your appeal should contain 9 prime information required for to be furnished by appeal.
BEFORE SO AND SO.......................
i]Name and address of appellant,
ii]Name and address of Central Public Information officer[CPIO] against decision of whom the appeal is preferred.;
iii]particulars of the order including numbers ,if any,against which the appeal is preferred;
iv] brief fact leading to appeal;
v]if the appeal is preferred against deemed refusal,the particulars of the application,including number and date and name and address of the CPIO to whom the application was made.;
vi]prayer or relief sought ;
vii]grounds for prayer or relief;
viii] verification by the appellant;and
any such other information which the commission may deem necessary for deciding the appeal;
The following documents should accompany the appeal as per Rule 4.
i]self attested copies of orders or documents against which the appeal is being preferred ;
ii]copies of documents relied upon by the appellant and referred to in the appeal;and
iii]an index of documents referred to in the appeal.
useful site for further guidance of yours is below:
http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/341-first-appeal-state-govts.html
http://www.rti.gov.in/
http://delhigovt.nic.in/rti/rules.asp
Guest
(Querist) 01 October 2011
Dear Sri Prabhakar
Thanks a million. Your advice on the matter will be honoured.
Regards
Haridas
@ Sri Dhingra- I am yet to file any appeal to any court on the matter. I was just trying hard to calculate what would be my age when the final verdict is spelt out if I appealed in any court now.
Guest
(Expert) 02 October 2011
Dear Haridas,
Once a case is filed in a court of law, all calcualtions fail, as the finalisation depends upon circumstances and priorities, including postponements.
Guest
(Querist) 02 October 2011
Dear Sri Dhingra
"Yourlordsheeps" vested with monarchical powers are the ones abusing it the most.
Going back to Jury system with UIDs in position and mummy paapa less selfless computers in actions things will certainly improved ' downgrading those ' YOURLORDSHEEPS ' where they belong.
