Deposit of title deeds
roger fredrick
(Querist) 03 October 2012
This query is : Resolved
dear experts my clients property was sold in public auction by a nationalised bank in the month of may, as he could not remit the loan amount in time. As the sale certificate has been issued and the property has been put to possession by the bank to the auction purchaser my client requested the bank to release the excess proceeds after deducting the loan amount and other charges. It has been four months since he is trying to get this amount and he is not getting any positive reply from the circle office. It is to be noted that property has not yet been transferred in the name of the auction purchaser and the encumbrance certificate reflects the registration of sale certificate and apart from that one more entry in the E.C shows deposit of title deeds for 10 lacs. This finance facility has been extended by the same bank which conducted the auction. My query is whether the auction purchaser is entitled to get loan amount on the strength of the title deeds of the borrower? . My contention is auction purchaser should have been given loan based the sale certificate issued in his favour. Please guide me as to what really happened in this transaction. (The E.C was taken a week back)
Anirudh
(Expert) 04 October 2012
On what basis the loan was extended by the Bank to the Auction purchaser is none of your concern. It is between the bank and the borrower.
You simply concentrate on getting refund from the bank of the surplus sale proceeds if any, after adjusting the entire amount due from you on the loan borrowed by you, including the interest thereon.
Other technicalities will be of no concern or of any help to you.
roger fredrick
(Querist) 04 October 2012
Mr.Anirudh if u know the answer for this query u could reply else simply ignore just like how our famous experts in this site are keeping away from this query.My dear friend u must know that legal wrangles or legal battles are fought over technicalities alone.I hope u understand.
Anirudh
(Expert) 04 October 2012
Dear Mr. Roger,
You are a borrower. Your property has been sold out by the Bank.
The prospective Auction buyer has been granted loan by the Bank. IT IS FOR THE BANK TO DO WHATEVER IT WANTS TO DO WITH ITS MONEY - WHETHER IT WANTS TO GIVE THE LOAN BY CITING ONE DOCUMENT OR THE OTHER.
Are you questioning the Bank's action in auctioning your property? - THE ANSWER SEEMS TO BE 'NO'.
Your client has only sought for the refund of the exceess sale proceeds (apparently there is no challenge to the auction sale at all).
Therefore, what locus standi one has to question the action of the bank in lending - and how can any one dictate or say to the bank that it has to lend the money only on such and such document and not on anything else?
I know the answer. That is why I have replied your query.
When you have come to this Forum and raised a query, be prepared to accept the answer - however unpalatable and not liked by you.
If other experts have not answered, it does not mean no one else can answer.
After getting the reply, you should have said how that technicalities will help your client in the given situation. Instead you are trying to tell something.
I am quite aware that sometimes technicalities do play a role in winning a case. But, I am equally sure, that this is not one such case nor the technicality that you talk about qualifies as such.
Anirudh
(Expert) 05 October 2012
Dear Mr. Rozer,
Your profile says that you are a Senior Advocate.
But from the kind of queries that you have asked in this Forum, I very much doubt whether you are even an Advocate, leave alone being a Senior Advocate!
roger fredrick
(Querist) 05 October 2012
Well Mr.Aniruth why are u so annoyed over this query.Let me tell u one thing being an experienced advocate u must know a simple theory that as long as property is not absolutely transferred in favour of auction purchaser he cannot mortgage his property. You must be aware of the fact that bank has certain norms to follow before dispersing loan.Banks provide finance only when the titles are clear and marketable. My client has every right to redeem his property as long as it is not conveyed absolutely. Without understanding these technicalities u r shouting from the rooftop that technicalities are of no help at all in this case. Your reply seems to suggest that you neither possess any knowledge in these matters nor you came across these types of cases.
Anirudh
(Expert) 19 October 2012
Dear Roger,
Your client's goose got cooked up when the property was auctioned.
Whether any formalities is to be fulfilled between the bank and the auction purchaser is a thing between them. your client has nothing to do.
You are trying to give some twist to your original story after getting caught on the wrong foot.
Originally you said that your client wanted the bank to refund the excess proceeds! Now you say that till the time the bank conveys the auctioned property to the purchaser, the auction purchaser cannot mortgage the property. Whether he can mortgage or not, in what way your client is concerned?
What technicalities you are talking about, when your client has no locus standi in this regard?
I laugh at your claim to knowledge on this subject! So much for your senior advocate tag!
roger fredrick
(Querist) 20 October 2012
Mr.Aniruth thank u so much for replying so belatedly. By this time I thought u would have done some research on this topic and learnt how T.P. act works in this auction sale procedure. Some people sleep really well and some pretend to sleep and belong to former category. Inspite of pointing out technicalities it is a pity that u r not in a position to understand. You must have been a very poor student and a back bencher in college and ur senior must be using u for getting passovers and dates else by now you would have learnt the nuances of property law. It is better u enrol yourself in good institution and study law properly before mocking at someone.
Anirudh
(Expert) 25 October 2012
Dear Mr. Rozer,
Please tell me how the provisions of T.P. Act, and in particular which provision of the T.P. Act comes to your rescue - especially when according to you -
(1) Your client's property was sold in public auction by a nationalised bank in the month of may, as he could not remit the loan amount in time. - Whether T.P. Act comes into picture or the contract act between you and the financial institution in this regard. Please clarify.
(2) As the sale certificate has been issued and the property has been put to possession by the bank to the auction purchaser my client requested the bank to release the excess proceeds after deducting the loan amount and other charges. - Your client has virtually conceded to the situation that his property has been not only sold in public auction, but sale certificate has been issued and possession also handed over. He was only asking for release of the excess sale proceeds after deducting loan amount and other charges. - Which provision of the T.P. Act comes into play in this situation? Can you please explain.
(3)It is to be noted that property has not yet been transferred in the name of the auction purchaser and the encumbrance certificate reflects the registration of sale certificate and apart from that one more entry in the E.C shows deposit of title deeds for 10 lacs. This finance facility has been extended by the same bank which conducted the auction. My query is whether the auction purchaser is entitled to get loan amount on the strength of the title deeds of the borrower?
In the above query, you are trying to question the wisdom of the bank in lending the amount to the auction purchaser, based on the title deed of the borrower (your client). Again, please tell me, which provision of the T.P. Act gets attracted as far as the bank is concerned when it lends the money to the auction purchaser?
(4) According to you, auction purchaser should have been given loan based the sale certificate issued in his favour. Again, how does it matter to you, it is between the lender and the borrower. In any case, according to you which provision of the T.P. Act gets attracted.
If you are so sure about your knowledge on the T.P. Act provisions, please provide the answer to the above pointed queries.
Anirudh
(Expert) 25 October 2012
Dear Mr. Rozer,
You say that I must have been a very poor student and a back bencher in college.
I fully agree, I am the poorest in my entire college - probably int he entire university.
I am also the back bencher and nobody else was in that bench.
You also say that ur senior must be using u for getting passovers and dates.
Agreed.
I feel that it is better for me to be all the above and yet be able to see the issues clearly, rather than to masqurade as a Senior Advocate but not knowing even the basics!
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2012
Dear Mr. Roger,
Please don't mind if I say that you could have fetched some good and useful answers to your basic problem had you discussed the same appropriately in your query. From your query, it seems the basic problem of your client is to get refund of the excess proceeds of property auction than his loan dues. But, in addition, the aspect of loan entitlement of the auction-buyer seems to be beyond understanding of anyone.
Being a senior advocate, on some technical ground, you might have some useful idea to link the refund case of your client with the loan entitlement case of the auction buyer of the property, but to be frank, any person thinking to answer your query would also have liked to know how in your opinion these different aspects have any relation with each other.
Obviously, your query with your contention is as follows:
"My query is whether the auction purchaser is entitled to get loan amount on the strength of the title deeds of the borrower? My contention is auction purchaser should have been given loan based the sale certificate issued in his favour."
What I feel, proma-facie, your question is quite simple to answer, as follows:
1) The auction purchaser is not entitled to get loan amount on the strength of the title deeds of the borrower.
2) Your contention is correct, the auction purchaser would have been entitled to get loan based the sale certificate issued in his favour.
But, you have probably missed to discuss whether the bank gave him loan on the basis of the title deeds of the borrower or on the basis of the sale certificate issued by the bank/auctioning authority and how the refund case of your client has any concern with the loan case of the auction buyer.
In my views, had you also discussed this point along with your query, you would have fetched good opinions of some of the well learned members of this forum. But, on the worse side, unfortunately the question answer sesion took an unsavoury turn by allegations and counter allegations between the querist and the answerer.
If you don't mind, I still belive, had you not resorted to allegations and counter-allegations over the answer of Shri Anirudh, you could still have got a few good and helpful answers from some of the learned members, including from Mr. Anirudh also, to solve the puzzle of your case.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 25 October 2012
roger
with great respect to you when any aspersions are cast upon any expert by any querist none of other experts will respond to your query . we are solving queries free of cost and devoting our valubale time in helping litigants . if inspite of that aspersions are cast we avoid responding to such queries
roger fredrick
(Querist) 26 October 2012
Dear Mr.Anirudh I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience my comments may have caused.I strongly feel that u have vast experience and great knowledge in the field of law. I promise you that I would not use such a harsh language hereafter against a senior advocate like you. I could reply u in detail if i have your email id.
Guest
(Expert) 26 October 2012
Dear Roger,
I appreciate well your conciliatory effort. I wish everyone should help each other with the part of of knowledge he has, as I belive that none on this earth can claim to be perfect and complete in himself and depend on someone or the other.
Anirudh
(Expert) 26 October 2012
Dear Mr. Roger,
I have nothing personal against you.
Nor have I taken anything personally.
It has never been my intention to show any up-manship here. My weakness is that I am forthright, whenever an issue is discussed. Tell the things as I see it and not as any one would like me to see (does not mean that I have not applied my mind to their point of view before answering).
I shall be happy if you can still discuss your issue in detail, point by point, in this forum, so that every one of us can usefully contribute.
Regards,
R.Ramachandran
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 26 October 2012
Well setted.
Pl have due respect for Hon service of Experts.
I agree with the views of Shri Sethy, Shri Dhingraji.
We certainly avoid to reply who insult our team members.
Mr. Roger, In one of my case, Bank auctioned a costly Flat, and purchaser hardly paid 25% of auction money, and balance is converted into Bank Loan including Stamp Duty & Registration.
Bank was only interested in converting Non Performing Asset to a refundable Loan .If buyer is capable to repay the said amount with interest, Bank will do it,
What Bank is doing is changing the Owner of Property, with loan thereof.Bank have no reason to harass ur client.
Yes, bank must release the excess proceeds after deducting the loan amount and other charges. May be formality like transfer of Share certificate etc are balance . So issue a Legal Notice to Bank demanding reasons thereof, and ask to expedite the refund , .It must serve ur purpose.
Let Advocate do not throw mud on brother Advocate. All make mistakes. Mind of same person changes every minute, on same subject depending on his mood, or may err. We must understand and accommodate it.
