Forgery on affidavit== passport/ 498a

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012 This query is : Resolved
My wifes lawyer forged her signatures on the Affidavit, Vakalatnama, and the petition of teh objection they filed to object to my passport. We filed case rearding this. My wife says that the "wrong" signatures are her signatures. Coulrt says sinc she is saying that the ignatures are her's no case can be filed. Please guide, is teh court right in thies approach?

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R.K Nanda (Expert) 23 May 2012
Take the help of Hand writing expert to verify ur wife signatures.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Thanks, Sir, but the court has to allow us to do that. Or you are saying that we should on our own attach the results of teh findings of the handwriting expert and then ask the court? But is it correct that jsut because she says that the signatures are hers, no case can be filed?? thats the thing i dont undersdtand. Please revert, Sir.

R.K Nanda (Expert) 23 May 2012
File application in court for the appointment of HE and pray to court to allow
it being necessary .

ajay sethi (Expert) 23 May 2012
no lawyer will forge signature of his cleint on vakalatnama . affidavit . lawyer is officer of court . he wont stoop to such levels for clients .

dont antagonise your wfe lawyer . concentrate on your existing case

R.K Nanda (Expert) 23 May 2012
Case can be filed against her as she has colluded with her lawyer.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Mr. Sethi, you already on her side, haha. Just for your information, since teh day i have filed the case the lawyer has stopped coming to this case. everybody commits mistakes. And i can easily prove that he has done it. Stooping to a level is an individual matter, just cause someone is a lawyer doesnt seal him off from being a human Dont people from, army, our govt "stoop" to levels w cant even dream off, they are also officers. I am a little amazed you are taking it personlly and wrongly. And i am not antagonising anyone here, i am finding justice. I am sure u r with me.

ajay sethi (Expert) 23 May 2012
well rishi , i find it diffcult to belive lawyer will resort to forgery of vakaltanama .

your wife has confirmed she has signed vaklatnama and it is her signtaure . court has accepted her statement and held that no case has been filed . the court has based its finding on fact that when wife is not saying it is forged and admits it is her signature no case is made out .

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
But Sir, its clear. THers no effort to even match the signatures. even an illeterate person would say that. If i am accusing, then the prerogative of proving the allegation is mine, is it not? Should the court not let me prove it? And why would she say that the signatures are not hers? Its her lawyer. Its so simple. Suppose, i say to you file an objection and i cant come to the court myself, u do it, the other party notices the difference. what should i say when i am asked. I ll certainly say that they are my signs. BUT-- the crime has been committed. Thats all what i am saying. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
And Sir, I totally respect you for the pride you have for your profession. May be the guy i am talking about, doesnt. People are different. I have also had lawyers who would wait for 10 days for the signed vakalatnama to reach tehm so that they could proceed with the case. Thats the difference b/w a good lawyer and a nuisance. I am sorry, but could not stop myself from saying that.

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
Dear Rishi,
You are simply harping on a point which is not worth at all.
Once your wife says that she has signed the vakalatnama and also the affidavit, you are nobody to say that she has not signed it.
Only when the opposite party also says that they have not signed it, then your version will have weightage. Otherwise such objections are pointless.
IN SPITE OF OUR TELLING, IF YOU STILL FEEL THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, BETTER PROCEED - ignore our views.

Shonee Kapoor (Expert) 23 May 2012
1. This act has not worked against you.
2. She has accepted her signature means that she has accepted all liability towards any claims which you may raise in her petition.

This is hardly a case where the court would go in depth and try to punish her for the act.

Concentrate your energies on the main case.

Regards,

Shonee Kapoor
harassed.by.498a@gmail.com

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
So, Mr. Anirudh, you are saying that its so simple to run a racket where a person has his lawyer to "show" his presence by filing a paper in the court by making his client's signature and the person simultaneously commits a crime somewhere else. He cant be caught as he was present in the court in flesh and blood as he has filed a paper. Train tickets can be booked. Is it so simple?
Yes, Mr Anirudh, i am harping on this point. Is there no way to catch such people? You either convince me or get convinced. Haha, i am sorry, sir, i am not a lawyer. but i truly believe that laws are made on logic and reasoning. Do you generally lose your cool, :) as i am sure u would have to meet even weaker daleels in the court== on a lighter note.

Guest (Expert) 23 May 2012
If you are firm on your doubt and also have some proof, better request the court to get the signatures verified through an handwriting expert.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Shonee,

1. The intention was to stop me from having a passport,which in turn would have resulted in my losing my job. Is that not enough, i mean the mala fide intention angle?
2. Just accepting, somehow its not going down my throat, i am really sorry. Its the easiest thing to do.
Anyway, i think i should stop pestering you guys before u block me, haha.
thanks to all of you for your time and energy. really appreciate that. I did not expect such a lovely and prompt response when i signed up. Kudos to you guys. And apologies for irritating you. Thanks again.

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
Dear Rishi,

TRY YOUR LUCK. PROVE YOUR POINT AND THEN TALK. YOU SAY LAWS ARE MADE ON LOGIC AND REASONING - NOBODY CAN ARGUE ABOUT THAT. BUT PLEASE EDUCATE ME (I AM VERY SERIOUS ABOUT IT AND ALSO VERY SERIOUS TO LEARN FROM YOU - BELIEVE ME I AM NOT LOSING MY COOL - I AM PRETTY COOL WHILE ASKING THIS FAVOUR FROM YOU) HOW YOU WILL PROVE THAT THE SIGNATURE IS NOT THAT OF "A" WHEN "A" HIMSELF/HERSELF SAYS THAT IT WAS SIGNED BY "A"? WHAT LOGIC / REASONING YOU WILL APPLY TO DISPROVE THE SAID CLAIM?

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Anirudh, the other signatures on the papers that have been filed in the court previoulsy. The order sheets that she has been signing, the mutual divorce petition that she signed, the 498a petition that she signed. She will have to say that one of the signatures are not hers, isnt it, when the handwriting expert would say that the signatutes are differnt? am i worng? and capitals in the written communication means taht u have lost your cool. :)

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Yes Mr Dhingra,
Even a blind person can tell that the signatuers are different. I have proof, on record in the court, with which the signatures can be matched and a conclulsion can be reached.
We will be requestng the court to call in the forensics, if thats what handwriting experts are called.
Thanks sir.

Guest (Expert) 23 May 2012
Dear Rishi,

In court cases, the contention has to be proved beyond doubt or an expert on the line has to certify about that, not that a blind man or any body else should tell the court. Satisfaction of the court is a must in before verdict of the court.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Yes, Mr Dhingra. I totally understand that. I was just trying to be clear with what i was saying. trying to tell you how different the signatures are. Sir, can a lower court judge excercise Suo Motu?

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
Dear Rishi,
Even if there is apparent difference in the signature discernible even by a BLIND PERSON, I just tell you one small defence. You disprove it.
While signing, I was in a hurry and the paper was signed on the bonnet of the car when the motor was on and there was vibration and that might have caused the difference! But I say, it was I who signed the papers! How you will disprove it?
YOU CAN DRAW ANY CONCLUSION ABOUT THE THINGS WRITTEN BY ME IN CAPITAL - SO LONG AS IT SUITS YOUR IMAGINATION IT SUITS ME ALSO. I AM COOL DESPITE YOUR CLAIMING OTHERWISE! I AM NOT BOTHERED A WEE BIT.

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
Even the forensic expert can say that the signatures differ. But he cannot conclusively say that the second signature is not that of mine, especially when I say and claim that I signed it.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Ya, Anirudh, now u make a valid point, See, i understand words written in smalls too. So, Since i was here to seek advise and not to prove anythng, whats the way to disprove it, cause i know the truth. ALthough the truth doesnt matter much in the court, court takes and believes statements like the one above, simple reasoning.
There has to be way out of it. Try to be on my side for a moment.:)

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Anirudh, And just for ther sake of an argument:- What if the "wrong" signatures and the lawyers handwriting match. Dont get angry, we are having a good discussion,here.

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
First and foremost, it will be an herculean task to make the lawyer make any signature in a case like this.

You cannot directly try to allege that it was the hand writing of the lawyer.

Even if things are taken to that far, then the lawyer will be smart enough to write things in such a manner that it will not be easy to prove that the signature was in his hand writing!

I am talking logic and reason. Now You want me to be unreasonable and to be on your side giving a go bye to the logic and reasoning! What a pity. If logic and reasoning were on your side (not the truth) at the first instance itself I would have sided with you. But unfortunately that was not the position. Hence our answer. A cool one at that.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
Point one. he has already signed it.
Second. U r right, it could be anyone.
third .he has already written enough for that to be proven.
Fourth. Ya, its a pity that i have only truth on my side. thanks to lawyers like you who only know and teach people to lie and file false cases. When asked to stand on the other side, they are answeerless and start misbehaving.
Either u r too successful or struggling from a very long time with no success, hence this attitude or may be have had this problem as a defect. Thanks for your time and i am sorry for you.I would have appreciated your expertise if you would have been able to give me answer after proving your point. Thats what teachers do, right? Learn to talk in the language you are talked to, or nobody will consider you. Thanks Anirudh.

Guest (Querist) 23 May 2012
And Thanks, everybody else who took out time for my query and gave suggestions. Specially for being decent and patient. This thanks is coming in after i spoke to Anirudh. I just could not ignore his misbehaviour anymore.
Some people misunderstand attitude with indecency.
Rgds
Rishi.

Anirudh (Expert) 23 May 2012
Dear Rishi,

You just jump to conclusions. What proof that you have to say that I as a lawyer teach people to lie and file false cases? Baseless.

Again what makes you to jump to conclusions that either I am successful or struggling with no success? Baseless.

I don't feel sorry for myself. Then why on earth you should feel sorry for me?

Suppose someone like you ask me to taste the sea water and to say that it tastes sweet. Naturally I will say no it is not sweet and it is salty. By saying this, if I am accused as being not siding with the person who asks me to say 'sweet' - yes, I am unsuccessful. I am proud being unsuccessful in such situations. If there are somebody who can please you by saying that the sea water is 'sweet' be blessed. I have no qualms.

I refuse to talk in the language I am talked to. I have my own individuality and identity. I am least bothered whether any body considers me or not. The day I give my answers thinking that I should be considered by others, that day I will be doing great disservice not only to the person to whom I believe I am doing service, but even to my own conscience. I refuse to budge.

SAINATH DEVALLA (Expert) 23 May 2012
One thing can anyone answer.When she had intended to object to his passport,what was the necessity for the lawyer to forge her signatures?

There have been a lot of deliberations between the experts right through this query.To be frank I don't find anything authentic in the querist's post.

Suhail A.Siddiqui (Expert) 23 May 2012
Court have correct approach and if any defect pointed out by you, can be removed at any stage since she is not denying with the content of application/suit etc.

Forgery on affidavit== passport/ 498a

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