Pension to widow
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
This query is : Resolved
If a widow continues to draw family pension by signing false affidavits in her life certificate signed by a gazetted officer for three years after her remarriage, is it a crime? Her pension was stopped when she got caught and money was recovered without any kind of penalty. She managed to transfer all that money to her 19 years old daughter. Under which section and what is the punishment for such crime? When caught, she managed to present a letter (back dated to the date of her remarriage) that she had given to the department where her husband was working before he died. But, NO action was taken for over three years!!! Fact remains that she continued filing false affidavits (FOUR times) that she was still a widow!! Please advise about the kind of crime committed here and the punishment in legal terms!! THANKS. (Not only this woman has remarried but she has filed false 498a and DV cases on new husband and her family. She is a complete fraud lady)
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 18 March 2012
A simple case of cheating will fall in the jurisdiction of thana where the bank /treasury was located.Open and shut case. Her new husband itself is a witness.
When she is no more netitled for pension her 19 year old daughter was.
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
From your query, the following vital questions arise:
1) What is your concern with this issue of pension to widow or the daughter of the deceased?
2) Who do you suppose should have punished the widow, when the aggrieved daughter did not file any case of fraud against her mother? The daughter seems to be satisfied after getting back her family pension dues from her mother.
3) Are you the new husband of the lady against whom she has filed a false 498a case?
Nadeem Qureshi
(Expert) 18 March 2012
I agree with Mr. Dhingra, first answer the questions after that we can give you best of our advice.
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
Police refused to take FIR. They said only bank can file FIR. If falls under Chandkheda (Gandhinagar) and bank is SBI (IIT-Branch) where she had submitted false affidavits signed by gazetted officer who knew her well. On the contrary police threatened the complainant accusing him of harassing the woman!!!! (woman was not even contacted by complainant). Polcie did all investigation and complainant was told that crime was committed and it was obvious and they did not acquire prima facie evidence (false affidavits) and closed the case!!! This is how police works in our country. You point out the theft, you show them the thief, you show them the murder weapon and still they will not do anything? What can be done in this situation. The woman must pay the price for what she has done and all the official intentionally helping her in this crime must be suspended.
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
Yes, I am the new husband. I am willing to pay for the service if someone can bring this woman to justice.(only after work is done) She is a fraud. She has committed fraud with government. No matter what police or anybody says to protect her, she has filed false affidavits and drew pension for over three years after her remarriage with me and that is a CRIME. Not only that, she has refused to act like my wife in the public. She reffused to put "Challa" on her forehead. She refused to observe 'Kadva Choth", She refused to go through any marriage ceremony or saptpadi and other Hindu rituals for marriage. She refused to change her name any of her official business or personal accounts. We had ONLY registered marriage.
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
You have given some more facts, but not replied the vital questions, as raised by me. The remedy cannot be suggested unless you give any clue about you, whereas not only you have hidden your true identity by using false your user ID (false498baroda), but also hav shown yourself as "NONE" in your profile.
Just imagine, why should you expect help from experts when you are appearing before them with your false identity?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 18 March 2012
My dear hiding vital facts is to your detriment.
You have still not intimated why SBI is not giving FIR.
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
I have no idea what are you talking about. I have answered "Yes" the very first word in my answer to Mr.Dhigra's question. So, what is in the name now? And how do I know why SBI has not filed an FIR? That is my problem also that I have raised that why SBI and POLICE are in active after finding out about the crime? And that is where I need expert's help. Two questions I asked for experts were under which section the kind of crime falls and what is the punishment? Person's name is X or Y, does not change the issue or solution here. And if someone is interested in helping for a fee, full information (name, PPO, a/c number...etc...) can always be given by private email. So, I really don't see what is the issue here if someone wants to share their expertise if they really know the process?
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 18 March 2012
Govt money is siphoned
False Affidavit is a crime.
intention is malafide and not a mistake.
Not Once, but for 3 years, used govt money , is public money.
She deserve punishment
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
I fully agree with you Mr.Shroff. I don't undertand our experts on this site why they are so offensive. Instead of talking about crime and punishment, they are more interested in knowing about me???? How does that matter on this site where they claim to help voluntarily! No question is asked for a particular expert. It's an open forum for discussion.
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
Hope you must be satisfied with the answer of Shri Shroff with some clear clues.
But, unless you act in a systematical and wise manner, without acting rashly, like unconcerningly filing FIR can harm your own interst rather than serve any purpose in your own 498a case.
For your information, any open discussion can harm you more rather than helping you, as the opposite party, if gets alerted about such discussion openly on this forum, can very well become readily prepared to defend her position against your strategy.
498a case, itself is very dangerous for any male member of a household, where police mostly side with the opposite sex. So, any FIR, may that be 100% correct, can be taken by the police, as a stint to save yourself.
But, if you still desire to get the issue discussed openly that solely depends upon your own wisdom and also on your defending lawyer as to how he would be able to help you to an easy and safe exit from the trouble.
In fact you need advice privately to tackle such type of defence issues.
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
You are welcome. Intention of the experts is neither to harm the interest of the querist, nor to favour the other party, as they don't know any of the two parties.
Shonee Kapoor
(Expert) 18 March 2012
If SBI is not filing FIR, you have no locus standii in the matter. You can file RTIs to know the response of SBI in this matter.
I understand that 498a is a pain. But dear, much of the discussion is useless on this topic. Defend your case, and let other party get what they deserve.
Regards,
Shonee Kapoor
harassed.by.498a@gmail.com
PS: Revenge is a dish which is best served cold.
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
That may be true Mr.Kapoor. But, in that case what is PIL?
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
PIL is a public interest litigation if taken up should be in the interest of common masses, not for individual's own interest against any individual.
false498baroda
(Querist) 18 March 2012
Arresting this fraud woman and punishing her is in the best interest of public. There will be many many widows might be doing the same (filling out false affidavits and claiming pension after their remarraige). Publishing this woman's arrest and her punishment could discourage others from doing the same. I am sure, many many dead people's pension is still going to their names and someone else is benefiting out of that and authority (officially)do not know about it!! This fraud woman could be just tip of a big iceberg breaking and 1000's of more frauds could be uncovered by arresting and punishing this one!! Just because her husband is filing a complaint, she should not get a second chance!! Complainant should not really matter. Punishing criminal is more important. Anybody should be able to file a complaint. It's a public money (government) she had stolen. Case is very simple. If she had not filed false affidavits and honestly declared herself as a remarried woman when she filed her very first life certificate after remarriage in 2007, her pension would have been stopped!! But, she continued to filed false affidavit for not just once or twice but FOUR times!! She should be sentenced for 5 x 4 = 20 years. The bank official had already come to know about this fraud in November 2010 and was in possession of marriage certificate already. But, still this woman went in and filled out false affidavit again in December 2010 and when asked, she told bank official that, "That man is not my husband and he is harassing me by false complaint." Look at her courage!! She has some kind of political backing. She has absolutely NO fear whatsoever!! She finds her way out by either bribing or something else with various authorities in the government. She was caught at that time. But, managed to transfer her pension to her daughter's account without losing a single penny!! And escape any kind of punishment by presenting back dated letter from the department where her husband was working at the time of his death and the letter showed that she had declared her remarriage to them. But, still she had continued filing false affidavits even after presenting that letter to the authority in the wrong place. So, crime has been committed for sure. She knew that she had to declare herself as a widow in order to continue receiving her pension month after month!! It was not any kind of mistake that she had committed doing the same thing four times until she got caught!
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2012
Wish you all success in your noble cause of attempt to safeguard the interest of common masses.
PARTHA P BORBORA
(Expert) 18 March 2012
you may inform the directorate of pension of your state in black and white.
But i want to say something else- you mentioned in your post " ... I m ready to pay (after job is done) if someone help the lady to comeout from the problem...." that does it mean? How dare u to use such kind of language in this platform? We are here not for money but to provide legal assistance to the common people and thus, we lawyers provide our free service as our ethical and social duty Through this platform. So pl use such kind of language in future. It rally harts me.
PARTHA P BORBORA
(Expert) 18 March 2012
you may inform the directorate of pension about the matter in black nd white.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 18 March 2012
My Dear false498baroda
You too, kept quite for years, and as now u r hit by her, u want to punish her with max jail. Till then u were goody goody!!u never told it PIL or anything??
Till then u too was enjoying her and her illegal income?? Can we experts say so??
How will u explain , u come with clean hand, and not knowing she bring such illegal money in your matrimonial home. As she married you, she is no more a Widow.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 18 March 2012
I do agree with the thoughtful advice of Dhingra ji and shroff.
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Mr.Shroff, she had always maintained that 1. she was getting pension for her daughter. 2. She never brought any money home. 3. She never changed any of her official personal or business address to her matrimonial home address 4. Fact that, it was her receiving pension and not her daughter was exposed during her cross exam very first time after she had filed the case!!
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Director of pension: Mrs.Tripti Ghosh cares less. She knows all about this. It took her almost a year to act on suspending her pension after she was informed. She is not interested in following up in regards to crime this woman has committed. In RBI there is ABSOLUTELY NO provision for punishment for pension fraud (in black and white). They are not ready to include pension fraud within banking fraud eventhough fraud committed here is clearly related to banking fraud!
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Mr.Partha,
Please read my post again and change your answer acordingly before threatening someone.
1. I have never asked anybody to help this fraud lady to come out of this - PLEASE read the story again!!
2. If I need professional help in the court, I must pay. Nobody from here will come and file case for me for free!! So, ai have done nothing wrong in asking for help for proession fees!! If you felt bad about it and willing to do this for free then you are welcome to do so and you have my apology.
Guest
(Expert) 19 March 2012
I think, instead of gaining lip sympathy from one and all, you need to be practical more than continuing with posting all your thoughts and actions by others in the department, bank, police, etc.
All these facts should be kept reserved for the expert you prefer to hire. For the purpose of hiring of service of any expert, I don't think you have contacted so far anyone. While, on the other hand, instead of contacting any expert yourself, I find that you expect the experts to contact you that too through your unknown email ID, which is nowhere visible in your profile or any of your post. However, if you like, you can contact me also through email at: dcgroup1962@gmail.com for further advice/ course of action.
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Yes Mr.Dhingra, I will do that as soon as I find one person who is able answer two straight questions I asked in my very first posting on this site. Discussion went off track because some people were interested in knowing things that were absolutely no necessary answer these two question. I repeat again: 1. What kind of crime has been committed (section) 2. what is the punishment for such crime? There is no sense in hiring anyone until these two questions are answered. I want to hire someone to file complaint in the court and get the criminal punished. I was very clear about this from the very begining on this site and I am in touch with some other groups as well to find an expert who might be able to answer those two questions.
Guest
(Expert) 19 March 2012
Probably, you are interested to start cutting the tree with branches from its top and fail in your efforts, rather than hitting from its root to make that fall completely. That way your attempts would go off track all the times, even if you get the replies to your two questions. Your efforts would be just like trying to reach USA by travelling from UK, BUT without going to UK.
Anyway, best of luck!
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Thank you Sir! I do want to reach USA because that is where I am from and have lived there since 1986. Whether I go from UK or not, I need to fill up my two bags with two answers of my questions!! And until I find the pilot who knows answer to those two questions, I can't fly. :-)
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 19 March 2012
The widow has attempted to get the pension for entire life while no more remaining a widow. The offence stood completed.
and when caught she opted for pension in the name of daughter who is not getting for entire life. This she should have done earlier her intention was ab-initio to siphon public money. The offence stood completed.
Mr Shroff has rightly observed that intention was malafide and not a mistake. Although he also enjoyed ill-gotten money but criminal liability rests on the so called widow only.
His locus standie in public money is really not very important. If SBI is despite commission of offence and despite being a Govt bank is taking no action then he can complaint to the CVC against the SBI officials.
Mr Partha Barbora has also given valuable suggestion to compliant to the authority on whose behalf the pension was being paid.
false498baroda
(Querist) 19 March 2012
Very nicely summarized Mr.Kumar. Her deceased husband was working for Central excise in Navi Mumbai. But, that department has tried to rescue this fraud woman by providing back dated letter oh her behalf that she had informed them about her remarriage. (Even then, this woamn is guilty of signing false affidavits even after written that letter)!! Bank is absolutely note interested in taking any action because she returned all money. (and paid all that returned money back to this woman's daughter who is living with her only - so NO damage done to this woman) This is how our government works. You steal as much as possible from government. When caught, you pay bribe and get away without any punishment and also keep the stolen money!!
Guest
(Expert) 20 March 2012
Dear false498baroda,
Hithertofore, you had been narrating your own one sided story without caring for what your opponent side can also do against you.
Answers are definitely known to the experts and may be to your own advocate also. But, may be on account of certain restraints and limitation that prohibit them to answer your questions, e.g., your own locus standi in the case. Mind it, when the matter does not relate to your personal problem, the experts are not bound to reply your questions just to benefit you at the cost of someone else. Your advocate must also be knowing whether he can win your case or not on such points or not.
But, if you are so adamant in getting reply to your questions, you may also have to reply certain questions, which I was avoiding to write openly just in your own interest. BUT, you never took the clue in right perspective. Your bad luck only, if she gets some clue directly or through someone else and tries to take advantage of such questions. In that case, you won't be able to blame anyone else later other than yourself.
So, If you don't mind, please reply the following questions:
1) For how much period she used to draw pension when she remained with you during your wedded life with her?
2) When you knew that she was drawing pension illegally, what did you do to prohibit her that time?
3) As a responsible Indian, what did you do to inform the pension sanctioning authority of the Central excise department or the State bank of India, if she did not adhere your advice?
4) As a law abiding citizen, why did not you report the police authorities about her fraudulent activity when she started drawing pension after her remarriage with you, if you advised not to do that?
5) If you did not do any such thing should not you also be treated in hand and gloves with that fraudulent lady to commit fraud with the Government (Central Excise department) and the State Bank of India.
6) If the needed answers to your previous questions are given and you also act accordingly, how you propose to defend your position, if she blames you that she drew pension as she was used to be compelled by you to draw pension to help you financially, and you married with her only due to the reason that she would be eligible to draw pension till life to supplement your own income?
If you don't have any answer to the above questions, just consult your own lawyer how you cannot also be booked along with her for such of her offence?
SO, JUST DECIDE, if you still want answers to your questions from your favoured pilot, and whether you would be able to go to USA or land in some other island against your own wishes.
false498baroda
(Querist) 20 March 2012
Mr.Dhigra,
Clearly you as well do not have answers to my two simple questions regardless of who committed crime. I was also avoiding to write like that on this site. But, now instead of answering two simpel questions (you claim to answer people's question on this site for free and one of oyur associate was pretending to be offended when I offered fees to fight my case), you have attacked the person asking the question. Do you think, only you could have thought about what you have just accused me about my involvement with that fraud lady? You are talking as if like you are her attorney. For your information, I have already filed everything in the court in my defense so that she can not come back and say what you are talking about here. I do not want to disclose my defense here. No one so far has been able to tell me answer to my question. 1. Section under which crime has been committed (regardless of who commited crime - one person or two or whole gang - does not really matter to answer that question) and 2. What is the punishment for such crime. (again, regardless of who will be punished - one person, two or whole gang - doesn't really matter). Do you still know the answer?
false498baroda
(Querist) 20 March 2012
and also, I am waiting her to accuse me like that so that, I can file for void marriage. She is a 48 yrs old educated woman. If it was so easy for someone to force her to get things signed then what is the gurantee that her brother who is co-conspiratior in this marriage fraud has not forced her to sign the marriage certificate? He (brother) is directly involved in the filing of 498a and DV cases. All her accounts has her brother's address. I have their mobile records and email correspondences. Still, there is absolutely NO need to get angry if you or someone else, do not have answers to my questions. We can just leave it here.
Guest
(Expert) 20 March 2012
It seems you have not read my reply properly. In 3rd to 4th lines of my above reply, I have clearly replied "answers are definitely known to the experts and may be to your own advocate also". That confirms, either you read between the lines or does not have the capability and capacity to properly understand what others point out to you. But still, you stick on the same point.
Anyway, wish you good luck.
Shonee Kapoor
(Expert) 23 March 2012
You have been guided properly By Ld. Dhingra.
Regards,
Shonee Kapoor
harassed.by.498a@gmail.com
