Regarding submission of succession certificate.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 23 October 2016
This query is : Resolved
My father was an employee in BSNL Ranchi. He died on 03.03.2014. My mother has already died on 21.05 2002. All my sister's and brothers are married. I am also married. In spite of marriage I was living with my father and was dependent on him. So I have submitted an application for appointment on compassionate ground. But office is wanting a succession certificate from me.I have got all retirement benefits due to nomination made by my father. My question is .... Is there necessary to submit succession certificate to son/daughter of a deceased employee? I am ready to give NOC from all my sister's and brothers.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 23 October 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
YOU HAVE SAID,
"My father was an employee in BSNL Ranchi. He died on 03.03.2014. My mother has already died on 21.05 2002. All my sister's and brothers are married. I am also married. In spite of marriage I was living with my father and was dependent on him. So I have applied for appointment on compassionate ground. But office is wanting a succession certificate from me. My question is .... Is there necessary to submit succession certificate to son/daughter of a deceased employee? I am ready to give NOC from all my sister's and brothers."
A succession certificate is an order granted by the court to the successors of the estate of a deceased person on the basis of an application made by them in the capacity as the legal heirs, or otherwise entitled to succeed to the estate of the deceased person under certain circumstances. When a person dies without leaving a will, the court may grant succession certificate in order to release or transfer the assets or realise securities or debts of the deceased.
It is required to establish the authenticity of the heirs.
Appointment in PSUs on compassionate ground is not that easy and in your case more than two and a half years have already elapsed.
Please inform what exactly is required by BSNL.
vswaminathan
(Expert) 24 October 2016
“......
When a person dies without leaving a will, the court may grant succession certificate in order to release or transfer the assets or realise securities or debts of the deceased.
It is required to establish the authenticity of the heirs......."
Personlly feel that, none other than an Expert having a hand-on field experience in this particular type of matter will have any clue / guidance to offer as to how in the absence of a ‘will’, anyone can otherwise satisfy the court on the authenticity of his claim.
It will be interesting to be enlightened, and also be generally helpful,to know,at least very briefly indicating,as to what exactly court expects from, and requires , a person in such a case to ‘establish the authenticity’ of his claim to be the legal heir (or as is the case on hand, he being one of the legal heirs), if the deceased , admittedly, has left no ‘will’.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
The Legal Heir certificate and Notarized NOC Letter of Other Legal Heirs would solve your Issue.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
Do not change direction of your query.
YOU HAVE SAID, INTER ALIA,
"So I have applied for appointment on compassionate ground. But office is wanting a succession certificate from me."
AS ALREADY ASKED FOR, PLEASE INFORM WHAT EXACTLY IS REQUIRED BY BSNL FROM YOU FOR CONSIDERING YOUR APPOINTMENT ON COMPASSIONATE GROUND.
FURTHER, WHY HAVE YOU APPLIED FOR SUCH APPOINTMENT AFTER MORE THAN 2 YEARS OF YOUR FATHER'S DEMISE.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
I wonder, if you are married and still dependent on your father!
By the way, who of the legal heirs got retirement benefits of your father from the BSNL and on what basis?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Discuss with BSNL authority and submit legal heir certificate, affidavit, NOC from other members of the family, if these can solve the purpose.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
As posted by Mr.N.J.S.Rajkumar, Mr. Rajendra K Goyal, legal heir certificate, affidavit, NOC from other members of the family, should solve the purpose.
Instead of bothering for anything else, submit these under proper acknowledgment,ASAP.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
If requirement by the authorities is for the succession certificate, I wonder, if you can force them to accept your legal heir certificate.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
A Succession certificate entitles a Person similar to How a Nominee would Act.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
It is posted in some threads that some states issue say;'Family Tree'.
The Tehsildar that issues such certificate marks inquiry and subsequent to reports by designated revenue official, issues such certificate.
Instead of bothering for anything else, submit these under proper acknowledgment,ASAP.
P. Venu
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Appointment on compassionate ground is not a case of succession. Such appointment given in given on exceptional cases to the deserving dependent of the deceased. The applicant may be required to furnish many particulars. But, certainly, succession certificate is not required to be produced.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Venu Sir,
Agreed.
The author is son and as per his post dependent.
Guest
(Expert) 24 October 2016
Being son does not get entitled to compassionate appointment as of right unless he fulfills the departmental conditions for such appointment.
vswaminathan
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Sorry!
Re. LH Certificate,the learned Experts do not seem to be clear but are seen to differ; in that, no clarity on the point whether such a certificate has to be necessarily applied for and obtained only from a court.
A couple of the Experts' Answers , as read and understood, implicitly suggest (open to correction, if my understanding is wrong)that may not be necessary; instead, a certificate from any other authority, even from self, should serve the purpose.
Incidentally, for income-tax purposes, particularly for the purpose of e'filing of tax return of income of a deceased by a LH, he is given an option to choose , select one from alternatives listed.Anyone, if interested to know more,the info., available in detail on the website of income-tax dept., under - Legal Heir - Registration" should help.
In my individual perspective, having regard to the nature / purpose, being 'employment', as seemingly opined by one of the Experts,BSNL will not be right in insisting upon a "LH Certificate", that too from a court. And the querist may have to take it up accordingly, with BSNL,in his pursuing the matter any further.
NB: The Admn., may please consider whether the sub. Query could be rightly regarded as "Resolved" (as has been marked on the Top)!
vswaminathan
(Expert) 25 October 2016
RIDER
On the indicated procedure as prescribed by the IT Dept., online, for e'filing of a tax return of 'income of deceased' there are, of course,certain other attendant problems.For own thoughts and viewpoints, those have been shared on Facebook (my Timeline) , so also elsewhere, in public domain.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Mr. Swaminathan,
It is not a case of e-filing of income tax return, but recruitment in relaxation of recruitment rules by an organization. I wonder, how the recruitment case has been equated with filing of IT return!
Anyone applying for appointment in relaxation of the coded recruitment rules cannot be appointed merely on applying, unless he fulfills the conditions prescribed for the recruitment, even on compassionate grounds.
Even if someone fulfills all the conditions for recruitment on compassionate ground, but there is no clear vacancy available in the organization according to his eligibility, he cannot appointed on that. He will be placed on the waiting list. Moreover, he gets chance only on his turn, if there are other eligible candidates on waiting list. Still further, Government has already fixed quota that only 1% of the existing vacancies can be utilised for filling up the posts on compassionate grounds. Still further first right goes only to the widow of the deceased employee. SHE IS ALREADY DEAD. Only thereafter comes the turn of sons & daughters that too, on satisfaction of the authorities that the whole family depends upon the applicant. Job is not meant to support any son or daughter, but for the person on whom the whole family, mostly consisting of wife and minors, of the deceased depends. Widow of deceased or minor is there in the family.
It is not so simple as you think.
Appointment and documentations depend upon satisfaction of rules and the competent authority not on the applicant or his advisors to submit some substitute of a required document.
Rather, I am surprised, how the author's eligibility is being considered by the BSNL, while his widow and minors are not left behind him to be supported by the applicant.
P. Venu
(Expert) 25 October 2016
My stand on the issue is unambiguous. No such succession certificate is required for being considered for compassionate appointment.
vswaminathan
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Mr PS Dhingra
Attention was drawn to the IT requirement only to pinpoint that,in the case of an intestate succession,insisting upon a LH Certificate, that too from a court,for whatever be the purpose,to say the least, makes no sense. That, to my mind, is the very reason why the Government / Revenue, commonly known, otherwise, invariably for rigid procedural rules/requirements, considered it prudent not to specify only LH Certificate, hence provided for alternatives.
"It is not so simple as you think."
My intent was not to complicate; but only to try and see whether any of the Experts, in their wisdom, and based on experience and expertise in their command, will have any useful but practical suggestion to come out with, so as to be of help to the Querist in his personal endeavor.
I have nothing more to add; but prefer to leave it to the eminent experts at large, in field practice,for enlightenment and help, if so considered or convinced to be possible.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
I am of the considered opinion that no authority asks for a succession certificate, as the author has stated. This presents a clear cut situation of an academic query supposedly having been asked by a law student.
However, if there is any truth in his story, he can feel free to file a writ petition based on the advice of the experts.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Dear Shri Swaminathan,
In fact, your observation, "the learned Experts do not seem to be clear" was quite derogatory, as if you the case was considered to pertain to efiling of IT returns. It was also not a case of intestate succession.
Service rules in no way can resemble with Financial/Taxation rules.
However, if you still feel that the author should resist asking of a succession certificate, I have already stated, he can feel free to file a writ petition based on the advice of the experts. He will automatically get appropriate result through court of law, when full prescribed conditions come to the notice of the court of law.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Kind attn; Mr.Vswaminathan If some body could pin point the Mistakes and Make Corrections in the Replies I am exclusively discussing about my posts I would welcome.Rather mentioning that Legal heir certificate to be obtained in Court I restrict my self in commenting about It.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Kind Attn mr.vswaninathan Please confirm Have you ever applied for Legal Heir Certificate either for your clients or any body else.could you please brief about your Process.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
kind Attn: Mr Vswaminathan could you Please tell Me How the IT Dept is involved in the Actual Query Posted by the Author Please.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Kind Attn: Mr Vswaminathan Our Senior Expert Mr.P.Venu had Served and Retired in Govt.Sector Like BSNL .He would have Certainly come across Several Issues Like this.Whether his Opinion would be Incorrect Please.
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Kind Attn:Mr.Vswaminathan; you had commented No Practical solution is Suggested.In that Case what is your Highness's Suggestion and advise/Practical Solution Please.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 25 October 2016
The author,
Have you applied to the job?
Whether NOC from other family members / Legal heirs attached?
Whether any objection in writing received from the department?
To whom the terminal benefits were paid?
Whether BSNL asked for the succession certificate to release the terminal benefits?
Guest
(Expert) 25 October 2016
The most important fact ignored to be stated by the author is that he has not stated whether any of his brothers or sisters have also claimed or not for the job under compassionate ground.
The probable reason for asking the succession certificate by the competent authority can be existence of some dispute about the claim for job among the brothers and sisters to grab a lucrative job in a platter without toiling for search of job in the job market.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 25 October 2016
The rules of BSNL were provided to you.
Did you check these?
If yes, what are the requirements?
Have you already submitted the documents suggested in this thread, under proper acknowledgment?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Whose case you are pursuing; self i.e you, married son and dependent
Or
Your sister; married daughter?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 25 October 2016
I had supported you in highly illustrated thread initiated by you at:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Appointment-on-compassionate-ground--604946.asp
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 25 October 2016
Can be benefited with the advice from the expert Kumar Doab, proceed accordingly.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 06 November 2016
I have got all retirement benefits due to nomination made by my father. But on the matter of compassionate appointment he wants succession certificate.
Guest
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Nomination and succession are quite different from each other.
If based on nomination you have received all the retirement benefits of your father, that cannot be the basis to decide that you alone are the successor of your father.
P. Venu
(Expert) 06 November 2016
You had received the retirement benefits as the nominee. A nominee is only a trustee on behalf of all the legal heirs.
Guest
(Expert) 06 November 2016
When 12 days ago, Shri Rajendra K Goyal has already advised you "Can be benefited with the advice from the expert Kumar Doab, proceed accordingly," why not get benefitted by that?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
The query is again posted in old thread at;
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Appointment-on-compassionate-ground--604946.asp
Guest
(Expert) 06 November 2016
What objection to repeated query, when some experts openly invite the authors to post as many as queries?
Guest
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Mr. Sanjay Kumar Sahu,
Nothing can satisfy you, if you are not satisfied with very long discussions in this thread as well as your 4 months old thread.
However, if some expert has advised you that you "Can be benefited with the advice from the expert Kumar Doab, proceed accordingly," why not try that, if can benefit you?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Agree with the comments from expert P. S. DHINGRA.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 06 November 2016
Sir, I am satisfied with opinion given on the topic and my sister is working as per your given advice. After meeting with GM of BSNL, GM agree to process my sister's application as per rule. In mean time A letter from BSNL has been received by which office has directed to submit NOC from other siblings and a Succession Certificate. But I can't understand why office has directed to submit Succession Certificate in spite of submitting NOC from all siblings.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Probably office want to have on record the names of legal heirs through this document. You can use RTI to know the exact reason.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Author,
Did you not notice that this has been posted for you in this thread;
"I am of the considered opinion that no authority asks for a succession certificate, as the author has stated. This presents a clear cut situation of an academic query supposedly having been asked by a law student.
However, if there is any truth in his story, he can feel free to file a writ petition based on the advice of the experts."
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
In your other thread it has been posted;
"Submit Legal heir certificate and NOC, ASAP, under proper acknowledgment.
Legal heir certificate is issued by Tehsildar after investigation/verification report by revenue officer."
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
You may also go thru post of Expert Mr. P. Venu ;
' But, certainly, succession certificate is not required to be produced.'.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 06 November 2016
I have got a copy enclosed in service book of my father showing last nomination and family details list submitted by my father. No other name is entered in family declaration.Only my name and my sister's name(talking about) is entered. And on the time of receiving death benefits of my father I have submitted an affidavit from first class Executive Magistrate showing name of all legal heirs
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
IN that case request the authority to be satisfied with it.
Legal heir certificate is issued by Tehsildar after investigation/verification report by revenue officer.
What is the hitch from your side in, getting it?
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 06 November 2016
No, there is no problem regarding Legal Heir Certificate but he is asking me to submit Succession Certificate.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Submit;'service book of my father showing last nomination and family details list submitted by my father', heir certificate and NOC, ASAP, under proper acknowledgment.
Thereafter convince that Succession Certificate, is not required.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 06 November 2016
If any name is not entered in the service book of your father, this does not deprive the person of his legal rights.
You can submit legal heir certificate.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 06 November 2016
OK, if she got legal heir certificate we all support her. But I have got all death benefits of my father, what will be the impact on that matter.
Guest
(Expert) 06 November 2016
You may try your luck on the advice of Shri Kumar Doab, if you can be benefited. But post the end result here after making your efforts.
Best of luck!
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Your query is this thread and other thread at:
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/Appointment-on-compassionate-ground--604946.asp
has been addressed in detail.
Your latest point on succession certificate has also been highlighted for your ready reference.
Hope you have carefully gone thru the paras on reply to need of succession certificate?
If not go thru again and carefully and slowly this time.
It is not understood why you are mingling the compassionate appointment of your sister with death benefits collected by you as nominee?
Did you distribute the death benefits with other legal heirs?
While you post your final reply quote these paras also.
Have you consulted a very able counsel specializing in service matters at your own location?
Your own counsel must have opined on your repeated post on succession certificate?
If yes what is the opinion of your own counsel?
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 06 November 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
YOU HAVE MADE, INTER ALIA, FOLLOWING STATEMENTS DURING THE LAST 13 DAYS:
"So I have submitted an application for appointment on compassionate ground. But office is wanting a succession certificate from..."
"I have got all retirement benefits due to nomination made by my father. But on the matter of compassionate appointment he wants succession certificate."
"A letter from BSNL has been received by which office has directed to submit NOC from other siblings and a Succession Certificate. But I can't understand why office has directed to submit Succession Certificate in spite of submitting NOC from all siblings."
"No, there is no problem regarding Legal Heir Certificate but he is asking me to submit Succession Certificate."
YOU PROVIDE NAME/DESIGNATION/TELEPHONE OF OFFICER OF BSNL. WHO IS DEMANDING SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE FROM YOU FOR APPOINTMENT ON COMPASSIONATE GROUND. THIS IS TO UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS INSISTING ON SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE. YOUR CASE WILL NOT BE QUOTED FOR THE PURPOSE.
IN CASE YOU HAVE ANY HESITATION IN PROVIDING ABOVE DETAILS OF THE OFFICER, DO NOT WORRY BUT PLEASE TELL WHEN SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE WAS DEMANDED FROM YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME. IF NEED BE, DETAILS OF THE OFFICER WILL BE FOUND OUT BY MAKING EFFORTS.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 08 November 2016
You can proceed as advised by the expert Kumar AS.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 09 November 2016
You may respond to expert Mr. Kumar AS.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 11 November 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
इतने दिन हो गए है,
अजी कुछ तो कहिये
चुप ना रहिये
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 11 November 2016
Sir,Abhi main BSNL dwara ki gai query ka reply taiyar kar submit kar diya hai. Jismein maine yah jawab likha hai - Succession certificate is not required in my case,If required as per rule A copy of Rule/Circular under which Succession certificate is required for processing of compassionate appointment cases may kindly be provided to me. Aage dekhein kya query ki jati hai ya BSNL ka kya reply aata hai.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 11 November 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
BSNL INTRODUCED NEW WEIGHTAGE POINT SYSTEM WITH EFFECT FROM 1.4.2016 FOR COMPASSIONATE GROUND APPOINTMENTS. WHEN DID YOU SUBMIT YOUR CASE?
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 11 November 2016
You may respond to expert Mr. Kumar AS.
In other thread all details have been provided to you.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 11 November 2016
Wait for the reply.
Meanwhile apply and get a copy of heir ship certificate from Tehsildar office and forward.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 11 November 2016
legal hair certificate pane ke liye kya sabhi family members ko aik sath aana hoga ya jise certificate pana hai uska present hona hi sufficient hai.
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 11 November 2016
application from any member can be submitted with the Tehsildar.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 11 November 2016
It is reiterated that a succession certificate is an order granted by the court to the successors of the estate of a deceased person on the basis of an application made by them in the capacity as the legal heirs, or otherwise entitled to succeed to the estate of the deceased person under certain circumstances. When a person dies without leaving a will, the court may grant succession certificate in order to release or transfer the assets or realise securities or debts of the deceased.
However, legal heir certificate is required for sanction of family pension, and for getting appointment on compassionate grounds and for other purposes.
Succession certificate and Legal heir certificate are totally different. While succession certificate is issued by the court, Legal Heir certificate is issued by Tehsildar of district.
THERE MAY BE A CASE WHERE FOR THE PURPOSE, COMPANY MAY WRITE IN ITS LETTER THE LANGUAGE LIKE 'Please provide a copy of succession certificate/legal heir certificate" AND THE PERSON CONCERNED UNDERSTANDS THAT HE IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE ALSO WHEREAS IN FACT COMPANY SEEKS AND ACCEPT SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE/LEGAL HEIR CERTIFICATE AS AVAILABLE.
PLEASE CONFIRM YOU HAVE BEEN DEMANDED SUCCESSION CERTIFICATE OR LEGAL HEIR CERTIFICATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOW STARTED QUERIES ABOUT LEGAL HEIR CERTIFICATE.
Sanjay Kumar sahu
(Querist) 11 November 2016
Qyery by BSNL:-
1. Succession certificate is not submitted by you.
Kuummaar AS
(Expert) 11 November 2016
Sanjay Kumar sahu,
1. YOU HAVE SAID THAT BSNL HAS ASKED YOU
"1. Succession certificate is not submitted by you."
PLEASE CLARIFY WHEN YOU SUBMITTED THE CASE, SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS WERE ADVISED TO YOU BY BSNL OR YOU ON YOUR OWN SUBMITTED THE CASE.
FURTHER, ARE YOU CLEAR, WHICH RULES WILL BE APPLICABLE IN YOUR CASE - THE LATEST ONES OR THE EARLIER ONES AS YOUR FATHER DIED ON 3.3.2014?
2. YOU HAVE ALSO SAID
"Abhi main BSNL dwara ki gai query ka reply taiyar kar submit kar diya hai. Jismein maine yah jawab likha hai - Succession certificate is not required in my case,If required as per rule A copy of Rule/Circular under which Succession certificate is required for processing of compassionate appointment cases may kindly be provided to me. Aage dekhein kya query ki jati hai ya BSNL ka kya reply aata hai."
BETTER, YOU SHOULD HAVE PERSONALLY TALKED TO THE CONCERNED OFFICER. ANYWAY, STILL YOU CAN DO SO. FURTHER, IN THE MEAN TIME, YOU OBTAIN LEGAL HEIR CERTIFICATE AND SUBMIT TO BSNL AS IN ALL PROBABILITY, SAME WILL BE ACCEPTED BY THEM.
YOU HAVE, HOWEVER, NOT YET DISCLOSED WHY YOU SUBMITTED THE CASE ON 22.8.2016 ALTHOUGH YOUR FATHER DIED ON 3.3.2014.
ALSO. DOES YOUR CASE FULFIL CONDITIONS OF NEW WEIGHTAGE POINT SYSTEM INTRODUCED BY BSNL WITH EFFECT FROM 1.4.2016 FOR COMPASSIONATE GROUND APPOINTMENTS?
Rajendra K Goyal
(Expert) 12 November 2016
Author need to reply the query from expert Kumar AS.
