Want expert advice

MCD

My Son like Sachin desai, U dont need expert advce but need holistic advice:

U have entered in to a marriage and not purchased a onion tomato. U dont have a choice which is so easy to exercise . However the easiest choice before you is to go to very good relationship / marriage counselors. At right stage they  will call her too. That time convinve her and take her for counseling. 

May be she is not getting what she expected from marriage.We should not be self centerd to only think of our expectations from marriage. You have brought in your life a living being who has her own needs,demands,urges,expectations etc .. You are treating her as a commodity ( I bought a gadget for so and so use , it is not fulfilling my needs and my family's need so I want to replace). And ofcurse u have not told that whether the living being with mind,heart,soul is giving you any shocks,jirks, jolts. If she is just cold to you then some patient efforts will bring lots of warmth and love in your live. But before expecting it to blossum , flower and give fruits you have to give the plants water, fertiliser, and care ( most important is safety). And remember 4 walls of a posh apartments, does not provide her any safety. Your committement to her, your integrity, your honesty alone can provide her saafty. 

1. Even a pet, a tree needs care , music ( love in ears but most husbands and in laws give taunts)

2. Give security ( second person in life means insecurity).

3,  Give dignity: Most girls in her parents house get more love and care then boys as they think she has to go one day  after marriage. And when that same same dignity and affection is missing then she becomes affected.

4. U may have married a daughter of millionaires from generations. But if not then she has seen her family making several sacrifices and saving and collecting one single paisa for her marriage. Honestly speaking in school days I have sold lottery tickets to make 10 paisa per tkt. I started my business career with Rs 3000/- and my office was my small drawing room and my office table was my ceneter table purchased by my beloved grand pa in second hand ( today an antique peice and any one can come and see). I have deliverd 30 KG material carrying on my shoulders to Trapu Cans Pvt. Ltd., ( The then co. of Amitabha Bachhan) when I had just begun the business of supplies. Fees in my school was just Rs. 5/- p.m. ( I in my heart bow down to great Ruiaji who made such an institution who imparted strict Sanskar, discipline and education to students ). But when it came to my children we sent them to ICSE. Sent my daughter to best of coaching class Karla Shukla ). She graduated as Dentist in merit. First thing I did was to take her to Hansaben of intenationally renowned Yoga institute which imparts high spiritualism, sanskar, character then merely physical exercises. 

Besides asking her to get involved in kitchen I sent her to Belaji's institute for cooking and kitchen management all the way to Jaipur for 10 days. By the grace of god she is a very good dancer too. She knows driving, computing,swimming though not proficiently. 

By this time most  my relatives and friends have been very successful.Some furnture in drawing room we changed as my well wishers insisted that my children  have entered marraige age. But I contimued to be simple and humble as per my budget. I continued to use 21 " TV, old  maruti van, Old furnitures. Why?? ( subsequently we changed few things as some of my LIC policies matured).

Just because on one hand my parents were old and no one knows better then me ( I run associations for sr. citizens for last 8 yrs.) that what can be the expenses on senior citizens if unfortunaely they become bedridden for long, then my son may need money if he has to abroad or start his own career, and most important was marriage of my lovely daugheter. It is important two note one fact here that in my life I have not even once even lightly slapped my children. Never never. I live with my parents, my one of the sis is around, my house in chawl type so every movement is open to neighbours, my office is in same building and has staff for day long and if any one can say that they have witnessed ever that I have even once slapped my children then I am willing to go for life time imprisionment as that is a worst crime according to me like child beating or wife beating or beating senior citizens. 

And another thing is my own pride and princiles inherited from my grand pa and father. Even if one person can say that in our life time of three generations if ever a thing of one paisa was expected  froget abt asking or taunting then I will committ suicide with whole family. And witnesses of all this begavioutrs are my own my 5 mamaji ( brothers of my mother ) and their family , that even by one word ever my grand pa who was born in 1890 and satrted his career as labourer in Aasam and then business in Mumbai with Rs 1/- ( will u believe) , my whole lot of relatives, baraties, and friends. In my marriage we cud arrange only one but to carry guest to Thane . My dear friend Mahesh Bajari gave his car for me the dulha. The no. of guest increased. My father ( the honourable father of groom)  with some of his close knit travelled by local city but 311 to kurla, then took a local train in third class to Thane , and then by auto ricksha to Marraige place where my in laws had arranged for best of events ( not demanded, expected and  agreed to that by us but they said they have to do as per their  living) . I came to know of this  journey after days. And feel proud of my father further who did not take obligation of anyone to get a car for himself as per his nature) and last thing he was to do unlike what we see is asking from bride side all the luxeries ( missed in their life). And little abt my father: Shri B L. Tholiya, B.com, LLB, ICWA, DBM ( Bajaj Institute), CS, CAIIB, Sanskrit Visharad.Ex Manager Bank, Insurance co, Indore Malava Mill, and finally practising cost accountant as top two in India ( first being nanabhoy and co.).

At the time of my marirage he was auditor/ consultant, co. secretarial work of  to Hindustan aluminium, Bradbury Mills, Dhutpapeshwar, Ipca laboratories,  Bombay Dying, Digvijay Cement Ltd, Indian smelting and I can go no. With his one phone call 50 cars would have come but??? Gifts worth lacs would have come but he did not give card to any of his clients, need I go on abt Gandhiji in my house??? 

And finally a day came. My daughter is married.......... Since that day ????????? Have any one of us slept??? 

As per me this much is sufficient to get some tears in your eyes that what all it means to bring up a daughter and specially by  a family which has only earning as self respect and dignity. If a gril id taunted, insulted, barati do bootlegging, thare is some one else in life, if she is made to wash clothes even in fever, her pihar walas are insulted , etc etc and yet the expectationn from her and her parents are highest !!!!  

May god give u a daughter , may these things happen to your sister and then think of they getting divorced. 

dear Sachin unless there is a case declared by a psychiatrist as psychic there was and always is a chance , there always is a hope.We submit before govt officials,  we do everything to please a boss, we do everything to keep happy friends and customers but we dont try to do same with our spouse ( specially wife) and het parents????????? why because of 5000 yrs of sick minds and culture. Come out of it. treat her as equal. Treat her 50% partner. All corpotrates spend millions to improve staff. Have you spent on her a paisa to improve her?  

 Understand her, give attention, get her good books, and CD"s, join art of living, Vipassana, Osho, or similar movement , love and respect her piharwalas if u expect her to respect and be attached to your parenyts etc etc.  ( sorry no time to improve , spell chk, reframe, reprase but jo samajh sakta hai vo samajha lega and jo chikna ghada hai usko bhagwan ek din sikhayega though god has various ways to teach such persons). 

Alok Tholiya 

tholiya@yahoo.com

u  can file petition u/s 13 B, H.M.A.it can be filed only with mutual consent.it will take 6 months to take divorce.but as in ur case ur wife is not ready to give u divorce so file the petition u/s 13 H.M.A. it will take time.

I feel there is need for counselling. Try to find out from ur wife by gentle pursuation what is troubling her. If she does not come out then take the help of your in laws (her parents) with a view to giving her necessary assurances. Unless all the efforts fail u should not think of Divorce, which implies failure on ur part also to protect and nurture your marriage.

Guptaji, Tusi to graet ho! In few words u have told so much.

Sir,
1. This question is asked and so far answered by forgetting the elementary principle of: do not tell lies to your Advocate and Doctor. The question is incomplete. Thus do not deserve an answer. Incomplete facts is amounting to telling lies.

2. To those who answered about Divorce, please do not forget that, if a person (whether male or female) is given Divorce, he can legally marry another person, and if the said Divorce was avoidable, or given to a person with history of committed Matrimonial Crimes, you are permitting him to spoil one more life.

3. It is difficult to think that, in the last 3 years, the Client of LCI do not know “what went wrong”, with his life. If he is able to find LCI web site and write a proper question, with incomplete facts, the presumption is, he know what went wrong in his life. Either he should speak privately to an Advocate all the truth and obtain Legal Advice, or write truth in LCI, where the general public will give answers. Without that what legal expert advice one person can get?

4. If his question is “Divorce”, he had given answer to himself. Even for that there are Advocates, who do not give legal advice, but just collect fees and file cases. Please note, the word DESERTION is applicable even when both are residing under same roof. In this case, the ground of Desertion can be argued – but only after proving that he himself had not tortured and made her life miserable; and she do not have a place to go after divorce.

5. Now the question is, what usefull purpose will be served with giving Divorce to a Gentleman, who do not know, exactly where the married life collapsed.

6. If you do not know what went wrong – get a Panchayat of persons who are independent to your family – they will discuss and find out What Went Wrong. If they are truly independent, they will give suggestions also. Please note, the elders assembled as Panchayat, if work honestly and if we comply, the money to be spend on Doctors and Advocates can be saved.

7. Without that Finding, if you take a decision yourself, you want to get married again with clear knowledge that, the said 2nd wife also will face similar bad luck and face torture.

8. Divorce is not a solution in this case – or in any case where the CLIENT had already suggested the remedy of Divorce. Lies are told in the Court – but not to your Advocate or Doctor. Here the Client had been unwilling to tell what went wrong – and why we should help him with the word Divorce.

9. It is not too late. Please obtain advice from Psychiatrists and Advocates, prior to deciding whether you want Divorce or one more opportunity from her to lead a normal life.

10. Wish you all the best.
G. Ramanathan, Advocate (D-1282/2000).
Ramanathan2108@gmail.com
 

Ad Ramnathanji ,

ur mail is precios and I will use it on similar occassions. Thanks . 

THe real client is a young man named Sachin, and who had accepted my advice is an elderly person, who himself rendered advice to Mr. Sachin. Mr. Sachin, please tell me, do you dislike my advice.

Dear Sir Ramnathan Ji,

You are very correct. Sachin's situation is some what similar to me. I am a resident of chandigarh. I am also victim of my wife's behaviour whose behaviour is further encouraged by my father in law. Initially, i made one mistake for which our entire family apoligised.  she started behaving violently. She and her family is leveling false accusations at us about dowry and all.. She did not hesitate to slap me. My father in law is only listening to her. Never bothered to ask me what is happening.  My wife is very aggresive, adamant & violent in nature. She thinks she is 100% correct & others are 100% wrong.  Since last 5 months she is at her father's place. Once my father in law brought police with him & threatened us. My father & i am a very soft person. All our efforts to normalize the situation failed because of their abnormal behaviour. Only we are running to their relatives. Now, what option is left for us? Now, I feel they want to extract money from us.

I feel Sachin is a poor boy like me.  And the commentary by Mr Alok Tholiya is irrelevant to write all about himself.  Dear sir, Ramnathan ji, some time these ladaki walas are very unreasonable guys. Matters are not so simple.

Anil Mishra

u made a mistake and apologised, don't forget this fact.

u have also not told, behavior was good before that. now depends what mistake.

work with the girl to normal the relation and don't go into litigation. most of the women are advised to file dowry case only.

When you say that do not forget the fact of accepting and correcting the mistake, you mean to say that life long wife & her father is authorised to hang sword on our head for my honesty? And Ms activist, these female favouring laws of our country are ruining many families. This is the root cause. These laws should be replaced by more appropriate family laws. You know, statistics clearly shows that more men are committing suicide than females.

Regards

Anil

@ Anil Mishraji,

It is correct in the given facts and circumstances of your case, you have left with no option except to go for divorce on the ground of cruelty.  Once apology is tendered and accepted, there should be no reference about that mistake by the person who accepted the apology.  So, you have got good grounds for divorce.  But why you join issues with Mr. Sachin.  The facts of his case may be different.  He may require different advice.  The legal advice and legal options to be pursued vary from case to case on the basis of the facts.  So, do not join issues with him.

We cannot say all the men facing matrimonial disputes are  good and all their spouses are bad.  Similarly, we cannot say all the women involved in matrimonial disputes are good and their spouses are bad.  Every case depends on its own facts and circumstances.

The married women in India, after marriage, face two and some times three disadvantages.  The first one is the matrimonial home, she has to live in comepletely new circumstances, where she will be alone and can rely only on the love of the husband (If it is deprived she will become helpless).  Secondly, She is physically weak and if husband believes in physical power to establish his love and rights, she will face difficult situation.  Thirdly, in some cases, if woman is not a working one, she will face economic dependence and to such extent she loses her liberty. 

Time and again I hear that the suicides in men are more than women, to support the argument that women harass the men more than men harass the women.  National Crimes Record Bureau released the data not only regarding the number of suicides in men and women, but  also the reasons for such suicides.  The men who committed suicides for family tensions (which include the loans taken for family needs and harassed by financiers) are less than women committed suicides for family tensions (In women the reasons for suicide are attributed mainly for harassment connected with dowry or pure harassment with out any demand for dowry, chronic illness and  abuses received due to barenness).  You also refer to the data released by NCR and find out  the reasons for which men committed suicide.  If you are really free from gender bias, your misconception about this suicides will be dispelled.    

The person who thinks that he/she is 100% correct and others are wrong...is  a pathetic person..completely clouded by the ego...as per my experience goes this kind of behavior is generally exhibited be females...

These kind of females should be dealt with carefully and done away with as soon as possible..

Regards,

RV

Anil Mishra Sir and others, 1. What I told is only about telling truth to the Advocate and Doctor. It equally applies to my self. Any time if I want services of an Advocate, not withstanding me myself is an Advocate, I should be honest to my Advocate. That will help in selecting the right strategy. 2. The LCI web site and various other web sites’s, main use is to tell the General Public, what is law – as prevention against “keep quite” and “misguide” attitudes of many a dishonest Advocates. Since generations and decades, the periodicals and magazines have Doctor, Advocate, Psychiatrist etc columns and question answers. It is just repetition of the same. Now if the Advocate in the Voluntary Forum is given incomplete facts, what help he can give. That is only my humble point. I did not write even single word about who is wrong. Only after hearing complete facts, we can know who went wrong. However, the presumption is, the wrong doer tells incomplete story – to waste every one’s time. In LCI we cannot give him Divorce. In fact, we do not even know whether the Original complainant really exists or an imaginary person. 3. It was correct for Mr. Anil Mishra, to open another page and tell his story than comparing that with Mr. Sachin. In LCI or anyother web sites, we cannot pass judgment against any one, or about male or female, we cannot make law, we cannot interpret law. The only thing we can do is, to help each other by avoiding misleading advices given by any other Advocate. In that case, asking incomplete questions is only time waste. (But by reading the story of Mr. Anil Mishra, he did not tell the first mistake. In a Cinema about Indian Air Force, named VIJETHA, the Hero’s parents, played by Rekha and Sashi Kapoor, they are not able to see one another’s eyes, and there also we do not know the reason for their dislikeness or enemity). 4. Anxiety of the Fatherly Elderly person, who responded is, incomplete story’s social impacts. My anxiety was, why Mr. Sachin tell incomplete story, and tell he want divorce. We both were at different planes. For an Advocate, if complete incidents are heard, it is easy to tell: whether to ask apology or ask divorce. For the Father of a girl, the only plea is “give her one more chance, and not divorce”. 5. Professor PM Dhar, who taught me Criminal Law, Trade Mark Law etc at Delhi University, had a famous proverb: “in the world of law, one plus one can be anything, but two”. Example he used to quote is, when one person killed his victim with single knife stab, he got punishment for Murder. When another saddistic person killed his victim with a stick, very slowly, hitting slowly, to give him a painful death, the 2nd case’s accused got only 2 years imprisonment, on the ground that, each beating was simple injury and there was no intention or knowledge to commit death. In other words – the man who awarded painless death to his victim got maximum punishment, but the man who killed the other inch-by-inch with saddism got very less or no punishment. 6. However, the entire FACTS make the life of the story. Plus the Luck of the litigant – when I am writing it, one of the High Court Judges is standing as a Litigant in front of Parliament. It is the question of luck. 7. However, within LCI, what purpose would be served by giving incomplete facts or complete lies. To repeat, we cannot give Divorce through Social Networking, cannot change laws. Thus, whether it is Mr. Sachin or Mr. Anil Mishra, Accountant; please tell complete incident. 8. To give another example – once I met a semi literate Soldier from Indian Army, Kerala State. He got mad, soon after his marriage. The reason he told me is, his wife told him that, it is male sperm which is responsible to decide the child will be boy or girl, the female egg remain still and it is male sperm which swim fast to female egg. By hearing this knowledge, the Soldier started to think that, his wife is characterless and got mad. In this case, I had to complete his story with first incident/ fill up the blank: I asked him, had you demanded a “son” from her at the first instance. He told yes. Thereafter, I had no case to file, but only teach the client, about his misunderstandings. 9. Here, simply by commencing a Litigation, no gain to clients. Some time, even after a success, there will only be a Hollowness. Human life is complete when we are together, and not when we are alone. However, the s*xual hormones and society want that, there should be Marriage. The Childhood is very attractive for many a people – thus not having a child is bad. Thus the urge for s*x and social need of children – coupled with religious beliefs about Son/ Shraddha etc complete the Circle – in which “we are together” means for a particular day, two complete stranger male and female, in India normally even on the date of marriage, they are complete strangers. In Developed cultures, the Strangeness may end prior to marriage, but on the first day, they too had been complete stranger. 10. Now the Strangers together make couple – whether married or live-in. After some time, may be hours or years – if they want to tell lies and incomplete stories, whether the Advocates and Courts are bound to help them ? I think, no. 11. It is what I wrote. I did not write that, Sachin is bad. I cannot tell that, unless he will tell complete story. He can select an Advocate at his place, pay fees and tell the story. Why should we bother. Especially, we do not know whether Sachin is reality or a fictional name. 12. Wish you all the best. G. Ramanathan, Advocate (D-1282/2000).