Confidential
Guest
(Querist) 03 March 2018
This query is : Resolved
I was handling one strange case, where one fraud, forgery, economic offence in Govt office took place.
Documents and related matter were kept hidden with remark "Confidential" for long time
Word "Confidential" was used so fraud is not known to the public .
Now question which arose in my mind, The word "Confidential" in Maharashtra Govt where is located legally. And rules and law related to it.
Whether it comes under the central act that is Official Secrecy Act
Even if you are /were in Govt service you can give some input as much as possible
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 03 March 2018
Mere confidentiality of a document doe snot make it protected from RTI Act unless the contents are prejudicial to the security of state.
You can send PM.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
There is nothing confidential in it.
But they kept various documents confidential and also destroyed important documents related to it
Now People are deceived by Govt officers
Now I felt the cause of action starts when confidential documents are released to public, because it contains some vital information or inter-department communication
So was trying to interpret the legal word Confidential from some act /GR etc.
Cause of action ---- Is very imp. thing for us else matter is old but people came to know they are deceived now , and matter is decade old .
So when I saw one paper with a confidential letter written in Red letter I felt cause of action starts now
Additionally officer who gave under RTI confidential paper just passed comment anything which can lead to arrest of senior Govt officer can not be confidential
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
To be honest, I hardly handled matters which involve criminal liability on IAS officers , It becoming tough because economic offense involving educated people are not of lower level they are highly intellectual level and to even understand what is the offense person require study more than person who are involved in economic offense
Dr J C Vashista
(Expert) 04 March 2018
There are certain government documents where access of public is "restricted", "confidential", "secret" and "top secret" handled by officers.
These are not open for public inspection/ without prior permission of competent authority.
However, when an officer is charged, s/he has a right to have a copy of the document for preparing his/ her defence.
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Don't you feel that you have made quite a strange query, when as per your profile you claim to be having everything in your possession ready to supply even the latest Index to Parliament Act - Subject wise?
Knowledge of index of Parliamentary Acts means knowledge of the type of contents available in each of the Acts. That way, you could have been well aware of which Act deals with the terms of 'secret' or 'confidential'.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Thanks, Sir ,
I like important statement --- Access of public is restricted ---- Access of public is restricted hence people did not know anything and when access was granted directly /indirectly (leakage) cause of action started.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Jigyasu
Law Commission of India could not get text of many acts when they were preparing some report .
Do you think I know all laws of india ?
Additionally there are various executive orders in name of Governor (GR) whose no in Maharashtra around 50 ,000.
A person who knows only real figures only know he knows nothing about law.
While just going through Manuputra I found the Confidential word is mentioned in various act and rules, and I conclude I lack knowledge.
Simple sentence help can help a lot knowingly /unknowingly the way Vashist sir replied
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Confidential ----- I can put simply documents whose access is restricted to general public ,( Let it be any act or rule)
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Ms. Madhu,
I can guess, you never handled any such confidential case in Government office, as you claimed. Had you handled confidential matters, you could well have been aware why confidentiality is maintained. It is not maintained to avoid public knowing about fraud, but to avoid leakage of investigation process from the concerned accused and his supporters to thwart their attempt to tamper with the evidence against them. Otherwise, fraud is not a secret or confidential thing that can be avoided to come to the knowledge of the public. That comes to the knowledge of the public by one or the other way.
So, to maintain confidentiality of the process of handling or investigation, the related documents are restricted only up to the dealing Gazetted Officers by marking them as confidential just to ensure that no leakage of the process and stage of investigation becomes available to anyone till the concerned Officer is finally charge sheeted after completion of the investigation.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Dhingra Sir ,
Partial correct , Yes I never handled any matter which is marked in Govt offices Confidential . But at same time I got some matter which as per Hon. Supreme Court judgement and guideline could lead to suspension of many officers and even Dist. Collector etc they could have faced action. I take in good note that Dist. Collector signed paper without looking at file this is my blind trust .
There are various other puzzling things too including how Accountant General of Maharashtra scrutiny was dogged.
All is still puzzle,
And to seek guidance or professional advice/help from some senior is not wrong in my opinion.
So asked , Rather myself was searching any officer who knows well how fraud froggery in Govt offices are handled , Departmental enquiry , Person who has handled such cases in High Court etc.
Some where it is rare case
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
@ Ms. Madhu,
Your profile speaks about you as follows:
"Anyone if interested in Latest Index to Parliament Act - Subject wise please drop your email address , you will get free . Please note this myself doing so I can understand how many got my booklet and I can send them update at each of parliament session."
What does that mean?
Further, your assumption is quite surprising that the Law Commission does not have access, where you have access to all Parliamentary Acts, as you have subject wise index with you! So, can we assume that you may be supplying the Acts to the Law Commission at the time of their need to refer to the law?
Also, it is strange to note that the executive orders of Governors are also treated as law by you? There is a marked difference between Law and the Executive Rules & instructions.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Jigyasu please keep that subject of Index of parliament act away I am talking some thing more imp. that booklet is made from some report . Even State Govt too have such booklet but different form . Don't change the topic .
See many booklet , books are written on based on various reports etc.
Every session of parliament hundreds of report are tabled in parliament too from those report some person make their own book /booklet so it is not strange and they give due acknowledgement to original report.
Regarding your comment that Law Commission of India they don't have access to some acts, kindly read the report where they have clearly mentioned following acts are not available to them and it is enforceable and it is a serious matter and they should be repelled as misuse may take place
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
I just tried my hand here to seek professional consultancy for a complicated rare case. People may say I talk stupid when I say Dist Collector too have to give his explanation why criminal proceedings should not be initiated against him . Now if person who feel Dist. Collector is God , what I can say to that ordinary person but they have done serious error of signing files without looking.
And when person signs files without looking you never know what stupid thing it may contain
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Agree with Expert Mr.Sudhir Kumar. First Seek the details required thro RTI which they have to respond with in 30 days. Basing on their reply you could legally proceed.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Sir , got papers under RTI thousands of paper and studied too. Imp documents are missing.
It clicked in my mind better demand investigation on whole matter in all offices including that on the post of Divisional Commissioner, Dist Collector even in Accountant general of Maharashtra.
The whole matter is strange people have a strange paper in hand
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
My query of word confidential partial resolved --- Document whose access general public or other people don't have.
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
If you could Pin Point and state the Offence Identified then you could complain to Economic Offence Wing .
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 04 March 2018
You have to a large extent confused tha matter.
You will never get any definition of :confidential" or "Secret" Even the Official Secrets Act does not define so.
Confidential information is the information prejudicial to state interest.
A document can be denied under RTI when disclosure will endanger security of state. So merely a document marked as Confidential by any authority [LDC and above] in govt does not debar its disclosure.
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
I differ with the statement of Mr. Sudhir Kumar that confidential interest is the information prejudicial to the state interest. It is only in rare cases, while leakage of the secret information only is treated as prejudicial to the state interest. Contrarily, leakage of confidential information is treated as prejudicial to the administrative interests of the concerned department of the Government.
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Ms. Madhu,
The term "confidential" is not a part of any Act, but can be found in the Procedural Rule Books of Departments of the Government of India or the States. That intends to convey that the Officer addressed through or entrusted with such documents should not break the confidence posed on them.
Further, this is for your information that a confidential information remains confidential till the completion of process on the information contained in a particular document. Once some specific action is started against the concerned employee after the process of investigation is completed that becomes automatically open to others, particularly when the case goes to the court of law. If you handled any such case while dealing with some court case that does not mean that you have handled a confidential case in Government office. The case becomes open to access for several people once that comes out of that particular office. When that was in process in any Government office, even a lawyer cannot get access to that document without the order of a court of law.
The irony is the Government poses trust only on the Gazetted Officers, irrespective of whether the Gazetted Officer may be corrupt and insincere to whatever extent or be working against the interests of the public. Contrary to that, most of the non Gazetted Government employees can be found to be much more trustworthy and sincere officials than some of the Gazetted Officers. But when some such case comes to light, some of the most sincere, efficient and trustworthy subordinate employees are tried to be made scapegoat for them by the Vigilance departments, as they are not protected by such Officers. That is why some unions in Government offices become too aggressive against several other Officers also, besides that particular tainted officer.
Guest
(Querist) 04 March 2018
Dhingra Sir
I really appreciate your inputs.
I also share experience, Junior says we are giving confidential paper after reading ( No bribe) under RTI , but senior officers are not co-operative some time.
I will compile all data after some time as myself preparing some other documents in other window
Thanks
Guest
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Ms. Madhu,
Thanks for your appreciation for my inputs.
Your observations are correct. Most of the Officers can be found to be non-cooperative, may not be due to their nature or habit, but due to ignorance of Rules or law on the issues. That can be attributed to the faulty system of recruitment of freshers from the open market, which do not have any interaction with the grass root level of the affairs of any public issues and the dealings. They are merely imposed on even the most experienced officials and even the experienced departmental officers. In most cases, their dictatorial and irrational style of working due to delegated powers often snub the righteous dealing by the subordinates. The instances of their irregularities or carelessness often are fanned out by some oppressed disgruntled officers/ officials. That may be the case with the District Collector, as you referred.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 04 March 2018
Ask for missing docs also under RTI......
Guest
(Expert) 05 March 2018
You can see the example of "confidential" in the fake expert, Mr. Kumar Doab, whose real name identity and whereabouts are known only to his terrorist group bosses. He has given you a gift of advice of Right To Information, which you have already used. Anyway, he has been successful in adding scores to his credit by making one entry. But thank God, he has not made multiple confusing posts, as per his habit.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 05 March 2018
Pity.
You have not specified in which capacity yo9u are investigating.
Guest
(Querist) 05 March 2018
it will be like posting entire writ draft, means I prepared draft but need time to rethink.
I will like to share it but after the almost final draft, else lot defects will be noticed
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 March 2018
IT=@PSD
the entity at 6th,12th,25th is =entity at 10th,20th,21st,23rd entity...
IT is one and the same IT=@PSD at 6th,12th,25th, 10th,20th,21st,23rd post in this thread also..........
The two ID's advertised by IT=@PSD are mere two ID's out of multiple fake ID's of IT=@PSD.............in this thread also is one and same entity i.e. IT=@PSD.......
In this thread also contribution of IT=@PSD is=NIL,ZERO
as usual from Day1 under all of It's=@PSD's multiple fake ID's.............
The entire thread has been stretched by IT=@PSD to make some frustrated points...............
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 March 2018
IT=@PSD
has been attacking all experts, members, querists, LCI admin,
in threads,
profiles
Mr. Madhu, Vashistaji, Mr. Sudhir Kumar that have posted in this thread also have also been attacked by IT=@PSD in unlimited number of threads and profiles...alongwith LCI Admin.....O/o Chief Justice of India, Apex Court, and who not!
Now IT=@PSD will run to litter on profiles.....
Guest
(Expert) 05 March 2018
Good, now see the confidential entity, Mr. Kumar Doab, demonstrating the state of his unsound mind by the other latest two posts. Of course, that way he has been able to add additional scores to his credit.
Kumar Doab
(Expert) 05 March 2018
From IT's end IT=@PSD has made another frustrated Best display by another good for nothing last post above my last post ....
Last post of IT=@PSD is also=NIL,ZERO.. as usual from Day1
IT=@PSD in all threads=NIL, ZERO.....................
IT=@PSD has attacked other Expert also e.g; Ms. Usha Kapoor in the day.............
Now get lost!
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 March 2018
@ Mr Kumar Doab.
Better not to quote my name in your immature fight with Mr Dhingra.
At point of times Mr Dhingra expressed agreement and disagreement with my views. Neither I need to be sarcastic on him nor he felt needs to be sarcastic and in any case I need not call him fake experts.
In case anyone prefers sarcastic I prefer to avoid him instead of spoiling decorum of the website and score more marks.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 March 2018
Partially disagreeing with Mr Dhingra, I would assert that
"confidential" - information prejudicial to state interest.
"secret" information prejudicial to security of state"
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 March 2018
For marking a document as "confidential" one need not be a gazetted officer. He should atleast be LDC.
Merely if a document is marked "confidential" that does not mean that it can be denied under RTI Act, so let the querist be out of misconception that he can cause suspension of several officers.
Guest
(Expert) 06 March 2018
@ Mr. Sudhir Kumar,
Was there a question, who marks a document confidential? Now a question arises, if an LDC can mark a document as confidential, is there any legal restriction for a private person to mark a document confidential, if he wants specific attention of some specific authority in a Government organization to take action on that document?
Guest
(Querist) 06 March 2018
I think the question was one , Now the thread is hijacked.
Let it be there is nothing against officers but to solve some problem. As stated earlier I need time to re-draft all and all your kind input will be useful for me.
This is related to land problem and I need to secure rights of some individual.
Already Legislative assembly have amended land revenue code so British era Lease land problem is solved with payment of conversion premium and all Leases of 50,90, 999 years become Occupancy Class 1 so they become free from Govt and do whatever they like.
Mass Problem ----
BIt twisted problem in itself, because every time they tried to solve British Era Lease Problem one group use to say charge them Market rate , People on land use to claim if we pay market Lease fee per annum that much money we never saw in life from where we can pay . Govt offices papers are never in order in reality .
To secure rights all did some kind of crooked things, now to bring individual plot legally on track is goal but while doing this past matters have to be solved too without it things can not be done
Guest
(Querist) 06 March 2018
If Plot holders individual rights to secure he did something which is not straight then that require proper handling and solving and then land converted legally.
Means you need to clear all things before the land is converted (This including past fraud , or wrongdoing or errors)
Guest
(Expert) 06 March 2018
@ Mr. Sudhir Kumar,
Why do you put restrictions on Mr. Kumar Doab, when he pretends to feel extreme pains for you and does not hesitate to involve your name EVEN WITHOUT ANY CONTEXT IN THE THREAD to help defend his position as well as his vague and irrelevant posts? You must have noticed, when he is unable to justify himself, he uses the shield of your name as well as the names of other experts.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 06 March 2018
I do have to object if my name is used by either party in mutual mud slinging club which contributes nothing but demeans decorum of the forum.
Guest
(Expert) 07 March 2018
@ Sudhir Kumar,
Surprising, you had been the admirer of Mr. Kumar Doab, irrespective of his misleading and wrong posts for the querists. Have you some different criteria of taking different instances of demeaning of the decorum of the forum when at several times you had been seen encouraging Mr. Kumar Doab, youself to continue with his posts, when he had been found abusing some expert profusely. Were those instances of encouragements not of the nature of demeaning the decorum of the forum on your own part?
Is not it quite surprising, you take objection when he takes shelter of your name as a shield to unduly justify his vague and irrelevant posts, even without any context? If you encourage tamaashbeeni on his part, your name is sure to be misused by him to his advantage, not to yours.
Don't forget, touts often make misuse of the name and reputation of their Godfathers, who blindly support them.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 07 March 2018
I do oppose Mr Kumar Doab. But without being sarcastic and without humiliating comments.
I do oppose Mr Dhingra. But without being sacastic and without humiliating comments.
I do oppose Mr Jugyasu . But without being sacastic and without humiliating comments.
But I never oppose for the sake of opposing a particular individual and if any expert expresses derogatory (not seen from Mr Kumar Doab) remarks I do not return as decorum of the forum (atleast to me) is important.
When I support or endorse views of anyone I do not do so with view to please any particular expert..
Mr Jigyasu and Mr Kumar Doab can continue.
