Disciplinary action
mukesh Gupta
(Querist) 10 January 2012
This query is : Resolved
1. Can we take disciplinary action against a union leader for the defamatory words spoken during addressing the meeting of its members?
2. Can i have citation in this regard.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 10 January 2012
NO , He is privileged.
Deepak Nair
(Expert) 10 January 2012
is it so Shroff Sir?
What if the statements made by him are seriously defamatory and degrading which will misguide the workers.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 10 January 2012
he is a union leader . what are the defamatory staements made .
In Dr. P.H. Daniel v. Krishna Iyyer, (1982 KLT 1) also the dispute related to a speech by a union leader in their annual conference and reported in their magazine called "Plantation Worker". It was alleged that the speech was defamatory to the plaintiff the owner of the plantation and whose workers were the members of the union. Kochu Thommen, J. speaking for the Division Bench stated as follows:
"The law of defamation seeks to hold the balance equitably between the rights of the individual and the interest of the society. In so doing the scale tilts in favour of communication which the interest of society demands."
13. In R. Rajagopal v. State of T.N., (1994 (6) SCC 632) Jeevan Reddy, J. noted the role of public figures and stated as follows:
"It has been held that as a class the public figures have, as the public officials have, access to mass media communication both to influence the policy and to counter-criticism of their views and activities. On this basis, it has been held that the citizen has a legitimate and substantial interest in the conduct of such persons and that the freedom of press extends to engaging in uninhibited debate about the involvement of public figures in public issues and events."
ajay sethi
(Expert) 10 January 2012
The statement is protected if it is fairly made by a person in the discharge of some public or private duty, whether legal or moral, or in the conduct of his own affairs, in matters where his interest is concerned. If fairly warranted by any reasonable occasion or exigency, and honestly made such communications are protected for the common convenience and welfare of the society; and the law has not restricted the right to make them within any narrow limits."
11. If the occasion is privileged and the statement is made honestly and without malice the defendants are exempted from liability.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 10 January 2012
I know, during Mumbai Strikes of many factory, inside the premises, the slogan shouted in presence of management, and even Female Directors are so abusive, and so defamatory,
Police action was taken , but nobody is punished, as they consider Union Leader as Privileged, like in Parliament, one shout, throw chapples, and so on. It is considered part of agitations, to negotiate their Wages, and in heat of the gathering, it is ignored.
Only if they attack the management, sustain body injuring, Police take action, but they avoid taking action, as it may cause violence, and lead to murders. Dutta Samant, and so many Union Leaders are killed also.
Industrial Disputes GHERAO, and Meetings are taken mildly. It is a temporary phase, and usually not personal. It is defaming a Manager or Director, and Management in general, not personal.
CHAPTER IX
PROTECTION ODF WORKMEN DURING PENDENCY OF PROCEEDINGS
Sec 33
(1)in relation to misconduct connected : FROM DISCHARGINF OR PUNISHING,… any workmen concerned in such dispute, except with the express written permission of the authority….
CHAPTER XVII
(2) is protection & (4) PROTECTED EMPLOYEE
No employer can dismiss, discharge n… any protected workman (office bearer of Registered Labour Union) , the Employer contravening the above provision may be punished with fine ….
Bombay Industrial Relations Act(act xi of 1947)&pribcipal of collective bargaining.
Basically these Labour Laws and Industrial relation, Industriald Dispute act is to avoid any stoppage f Industrial production by Strikes, and its Agitation, gherao, meetings ar Part of Agitation, Workman considered illiterate, do not know how to behave, what to speak, and a Protected class, and their Leader ar Privileged, as far as id Agitation etc.
AS FAR AS IT IS NOT PERSONAL, AND RELATE TO GENERAL MANAGEMENT, DEFAMATORY ACTION CNNOT BE TAKEN,
e.g "XYZ CHOR HAI, Lohi Chusta Hai, Workar ka G*n marta hai, Khud ** Maza Marta Hai.
Mnag ETC ETC, and Mg are advised to take all these in Low Profile, ignore, and be cool. " Next Door, Union Leaders tell Top Mgn, " Saab, apko gali Dena Padta Hai, kaise Smbhalu Worker Mass ko" All Set.
in few occasions, gm, and m.d. were beaten up, kept in their cabin 48 hrs by union employee, and only police rescued them , that’s all.
Certainly management doesn’t want to close down their manufacturing unit employee of 3000 persons, and finis their industry. So mild behaviors, government permission before taking action, etc, that protect their union office bearer is allowed.
THEY ARE PROTECTED EMPLOYEE.
Ajay explained nicely.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 10 January 2012
I will partially disagree wth Mr Shroff. I have seen case where a senior union leader in Govt deptt was punished for such uterances. But query is vague. It does not describe what are the workds and how are they defamatory. In case the senior officers have done some fraud or irregularity and it is exposed in public meeting then there is no defamation.
Advocate. Arunagiri
(Expert) 10 January 2012
If the union leader had uttered defamatory statements, it is an offense.
I dont think it comes under privileged communication.
Deepak Nair
(Expert) 10 January 2012
Yes. I too think so. There is freedom of speach. But not to degrade the status of others or to defame others by false and baseless statements.
Raj Kumar Makkad
(Expert) 11 January 2012
We should again confine to the query. The sole reply to the query is YES if the ingredient of the offense are established upon him.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 11 January 2012
IIf during the course of industrial dispute, and agitation,
And if not related to or aimed at Personal
IF STATEMENTS ARE MADE IN THAT HOT ATMOSPHERE, of agitation, being part id industrial dispute AND NON PERSONAL
IT IS VIEWED LIKE ANY OTHER, IN ELECTION MEETINGS, THAT THEY DEFAME LEADERS.
IND DISPUTE ACT, I R ACT PROTECTS UNION LEADER, OTHERWISE THEY CANNOT WORK.
USUALLY SUCH STATEMENTS AR IGNORED.
Over and above, go through the QUERY once again and READ VERY CAREFULLY
" the defamatory words spoken during addressing the meeting of its member"
A Meeting of the members of the Union is a Private meeting. It cannot be published, and even Journalists were asked to leave immediately, in my presence, with a big issue of MNC. It was declared by the President of Union that this being a Private and Confidential meeting, though 2500 Members are present here, Our is Privileged Discussion , and Outsider have no any right to enter. or publish the matter. the clear words were “GET OUT OF HERE” , and some very very defamatory words against the Company Management Team, and their Personal image, s*x relations also.
Journalist, as well as Company could not do anything.
It is like in your home, with 10 Family member may utter any words against anybody, with thousand of defamatory and dirty sexy words, , but it is your home. Similarly, it is their member meeting.
NOW ANYBODY WANT TO SAY MY FIRST REPLY
[ NO , He is privileged.]
CAN BE partially disagree wth Mr Shroff.]
Don’t reply partially, either it is YES or it is NO.
Sorry, nothing in between. No gray area,
Pl Reply
** YES** or **NO** I replied #NO#
PL COMMENT
Adv Shroff
11-01-201
Deepak Nair
(Expert) 11 January 2012
Dear Shroff sir,
My answer is YES. How it can be assumed that the remark was not personal??
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 11 January 2012
BUT THE WHOLE THING IS THAT THE QUERY is VAGUE.
MAY whatever the right be and there is but view expressed by Mr. V R SHROFF is everybody personal experience of past.
Devajyoti Barman
(Expert) 12 January 2012
Adequately discussed and no addition seems reired anymore.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 26 January 2012
The querist is just keeping quite on the issue as to how the words were defamatory. Mere exposure of ill deeds is no defamation. He has not come to the point whether assertions of union leader were false also. Union leader is no leader if he is not permitted to criticise the manageres (of course not falsely) and unearth errors and manipulations.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 26 January 2012
Go through the QUERY and READ VERY CAREFULLY
" the defamatory words spoken during addressing the meeting of its member"
Meeting of Members is a PRIVATE MEETING OF UNION WITH ITS MEMBERS.
no disciplinary action can be taken
Govt office s different. Industry cannot suffer for such small matters, of Union Leader of a Recognized Trade Union in a Private meeting with their Members Only.
It is also a Confidential discussion, so no defamation.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 26 January 2012
Here it s not staement to Public, nor a book was published that can reach outsiders.
This is INDOOR .
Meeting of it's members, and outsiders are not allowed .
How can there be element of Defamation or disciplinary action??
Outsiders are trespasser. Inside are members who heard the comments.
They are bound to discuss all black & White of the Company they work for, and who drain Company Money, depriving their members a higher salary!!
It can result in STRIKE. that even Govt do not want, as National Loss of Production, man-days, also deprive Essential supply.
My all Means , Office Bearers of Union are immune. *& Privileged, in Their private Meeting with their Members. .
