Employer.....employee relationship
chitra gupta
(Querist) 21 September 2012
This query is : Resolved
how long employer......employee relationship will exist as per labour laws or constitution of india where an industrial employee(now under suspension) has been denied subsistance allowance(despite of submitting non employment certificates)since last 26months......a vindictive attitude has been played by the disciplinary authority of a nationalised company and the labour has no other sourceof income for his livelihood.....as long as employer/employee exists,the labour is handicapped,,,,,,,,,is it not violation of human rights.......experts may pl share their valuable opinion.....thanks(.)
Guest
(Expert) 22 September 2012
Dear Chitra Gupta,
Employer-employee relationship subsists only up to the effective date of retirement, termination or resignation. But the text of your question has something else to explain in which you expect the relations, rather obligations, to be one-sided.
No doubt, during suspension, employee-employer relations do exist, but conditions/ obligations of service rules have to be abided by the employee also. He should not get employed elsewhere during suspension period, failing which he is considered to be guilty of violation of the service rules as well as being guilty for double employment.
So far as the question of human rights are concerned, there is no violation of human rights or vindictiveness on the part of the disciplinary authority, as he is supposed to follow the Government's prescribed rules, while the employee failed to fulfill his own obligation of submitting a non-employment certificate. For your information, the disciplinary authority has no authority to allow any relaxation in the prescribed rules on employee conduct and discipline. In view of the prescribed rules, even the court would not admit the claim of the employee without submission of the non-employment certificate.
So, in compliance with the Government rules, the employee has to submit a non-employment certificate for being entitled to claim his subsistence allowance, so that the employer is assured about his not being engaged in any other employment during his suspension period.
He could have complained about violation of human rights or vindictiveness of the employer only when he would not have received the subsistence allowance even after submission of his non-employment certificate.
BY THE WAY, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION TO THE EMPLOYEE IN GIVING A CERTIFICATE OF NON-EMPLOYMENT? WHY HE IS HESITANT IN GIVING A NON-EMPLOYMENT CERTIFICATE?
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 22 September 2012
In case you are not submitting the certificate then I am bound to reiterate what Mr Dhingra said as under :-
BY THE WAY, WHAT IS THE OBJECTION TO THE EMPLOYEE IN GIVING A CERTIFICATE OF NON-EMPLOYMENT? WHY HE IS HESITANT IN GIVING A NON-EMPLOYMENT CERTIFICATE?
Take it clearly in case such certificate has not been rendered by you then you have absolutely no case.
In case the certificate has been given by you and yet there is no subsistance allowance then you have all the case.
you are not the first or last suspended emoployee
chitra gupta
(Querist) 22 September 2012
sorry,we have clearly mentioned that "DESPITE OF SUBMITTING NON EMPLOYMENT CERTIFICATE'.....the employee(industrial labour) has been denied payment of subsistance allowance....we know that EMPLOYER is the absolute authority but only there would be one way channel.?...as per my knowledge this is not a isolated case,we shouLd come forward to save the industrial labours and their families.....thanks.
Guest
(Expert) 23 September 2012
Dear Chitra Gupta,
Do you feel yourself over-smart and ourselves as idiots, who cannot read properly any post or would not have not noticed what you wrote originally (i.e., for the vague reason of non-submission of non-employment certificate) and what modification (i.e., despite of submitting non employment certificates) you could make by editing your post after our reply?
If the industrial labour had already submitted the non-employment certificates, the questions arise--
1) What he had been doing for the last 26 months?
2) What had been the monetary source of the said industrial labour for his subsistence for all these 26 months?
3) Why he could not go to the industrial court for all the 26 months?
4) Why the trade union of his industry had been keeping silent over the high-handedness of the employer?
Of course, by twisting some facts over these pages here, you can attract some sympathetic opinions to sooth your mindset, but half or twisted fact may not help to solve your problem. There is no reason for the disciplinary authority to withhold the subsistence allowance for all these 26 months had the employee submitted non-employment certificates.
Sorry dear, our sympathetic words may not help you even in the courts of law unless you state the full facts of the case. If the subsistence allowance is held up for want of submission of non-employment certificates, we have already provided you the solution of submission of the requisite certificates. But, be cautious, the disciplinary authority would be free to verify the facts, if false certificates of non-employment are given. The employee may further attract some more stringent punishment by the authorities for submitting false certificates.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 23 September 2012
This is Purely my Opinion
PROTECTION OF WRONG LABOURER BY LABOUR LAWS AT THE COST OF JOBS.
PROTECTION OF JOB SHOULD NEVER BE AT THE COST OF HONEST WORKMEN AND PUBLIC AT LARGE.
Many factories closed down for difficult labour laws, shifted elsewhere, WHERE NO LABOUR PROBLEM.
If a TERMINATED workman is honest, hard working, why can't he get another job in a year!!
WRONG DOERS CANNOT BE PUNISHED FOR WANT OF EVIDENCE:Does not mean they were not wrong.
Out of 60 Sr. Citizen murdered in Mumbai, only 2 were punished, does not mean 58 old man were not killed.
Why should he insist to work, where he was thrown out??
Why he only was picked up and thrown out of hundreds of others??
Why he can't improve his attitude and behaviour after issue of Warning etc??
Will this Society improve by defending wrong doers, criminals, and ay them without working for years? Who will bear the cost?? the consumer.
In all sphere of life , all are not good. Rotten have to be kept out, or they spoil the entire lot.
Indiscipline leads to inferior quality of goods, at higher price, mfg cannot compete, and ultimately China takes up the market, where there are no such Labour Protection Laws.
There is limit to Protection.
Can you get a single House on rent in Mumbai?? @ Rs. 12-200 p.m. ?? Rent Act Protected tenants at the cost of availability of house.
Now no house in Mumbai unless you have 20-100 L.
No more chawl built to house poor labourer.
No more factories/ no more permanent jobs No more Employment:: All on contract..
Labour can leave any time , with 1-3 months notice
Why Employer cannot terminate jobs with 1-3 months notice, if his job found unsatisfactory??
To meet the end of justice, At least 2% of total Labour be allowed to be terminated at the discretion of Management , to improve upon Qualities of balance 98% of labourer.
Then only healthy competition will improve Indian Industries.
Look at International Laws. & Their Quality of Goods. Do we want to survive in this wor;d of Competition ??
Or hear from Workmen : "This is not my work, I will not do it"" You cannot remove me, Only Pay me.
The progress of Nation wholly depend on quality of Goods manufactured at competitive cost. The Role of Workmen is most important.
So must not pamper a wrong doer.
Let 1% of Rotten workmen go every yea. It will take 100 years for Company to throw all. But certainly, it will benefit the rest 99% every year.
Many workmen, due to Union, do nor recognise importance of JOB. They misuse the Protection of Workmen Laws, Spoil everything there. There is no healthy competition in Factory workmen.
Irrespective of any D action. Employer be allowed to terminate job of any workman on payment of 1 year of Wages to him [ With Limitation of 2% of total Workmen] It will certainly create healthy and happy Mgm- workman relationship. Mgm will be able to weed out the wrong doer.
THEY ARE OVER PROTECTED.
THEY BREAK FACTORY,
LIKE WIFE, OVER PROTECTED, HARASSES HUSBAND+ HIS FAMILY & BREAK HER HOUSE BY 498
I believe, the Laws Protecting woman, Labour, SC ST Reservation , Minority , Tenants, Criminals, Corruptions, Will deteriorates and destroy INDIA. WE ALL WILL SUFFER, IF OVER PROTECTED.
Human rights cannot be at the cost of humanity & Human Life.
Sudhir Kumar, Advocate
(Expert) 23 November 2013
It may be in your own interest to put all facts in one thread. You are having multiple queries:-
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/disciplinary-proceedings-after-5yrs-317986.asp#.UpAYYCfQzmk
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/preliminary-enquiry-started-in-a-psu-after-5yrs-removing-the-biased-io-and-po-also-but-non-disburse-338736.asp#.UpAZdSfQzmk
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/employer-employee-relationship-340201.asp#.UpAZpSfQzmk
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/experts/tender-floated-violating-govt-norms-340996.asp
This is against your interest as by half facts you will give half advised which may be incorrect if seen in total perspective.
DO NOT BE YOUR OWN DAMAGER
