Tds
Guest
(Querist) 14 March 2013
This query is : Resolved
Mr.X is an employee of a Public Ltd.Company.His employer has made excess deduction of TDS from his salary for the previous -year 2012.Further they have not deposited the TDS with the Govt.How can he claim refund of excess TDS in his I.T.Return?
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 14 March 2013
Ask to Employer to Deposit TDS amt in Government Account.
Else No Option Employee Have.
Adv k . mahesh
(Expert) 14 March 2013
discuss with your HR department and give a letter stating that to deposit the deducted amount as per the income tax act and take acknowledgement and issue a statement of deposit which will be your proof
and also state that if they do not deposit will complain to income tax authorities
Guest
(Expert) 14 March 2013
Keep patience, your employer can still deposit the due tax amount by 15th March. Insist your employer for issue of Form-16 for decution of tax at source. The form can be issued only after 31st march 2013 for the financial year 2012-13. Attach that along with your IT return for 2012-13. If excess deduction is made, the refund would become automatically due with reference to your return.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 14 March 2013
Dear Sir,
Nothing will work to claim TDS refund as suggested by experts.
wef 2010-11, untill and unless TDS credit will not shown in online form 26AS, you can't claim TDS credit.
so you got only one option i.e consult to your employer and settle mutually.
check your online 26AS TDS credit from TDScpc site.
rest option available is legal only.
Guest
(Expert) 14 March 2013
@Mr. Ayush,
With reference to your statement, "Nothing will work to claim TDS refund as suggested by experts," hope you don't mean to say that on violation of laws of Income Tax, his employer would be free to swindle away the money in the name of income tax, if not deposited?
Further, do you assume that the employer would also not deposit the TDS with the Income Tax Department any time, if he has deducted any amount in the name of TDS?
I don't think the IT Department has given such a free hand to the employers and others to deduct TDS and go scot free by not depositing the same with the excequer. YOUR VIEWS WOULD BE APPRECITED.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 14 March 2013
I Agreed That Employer One Day Have to Deposit the Taxes, IT will never leave for the same.
But as Far as Employee is concerned, what he can do. just asking to employer.
next option is write a letter to AO, in that case, i have experience you never get reply from AO.
Guest
(Expert) 14 March 2013
@Mr. Ayush,
Hope you would like to agree that as and when the employer deposits the amount, the employee would become eligible for refund?
I further hope, you would also like to agree that if the employee is able to get Form-16 and attaches that with his return, that cannot go unnoticed by the IT department, if there is no deposit by the employer?
Still further, I hope, you would also agree that if the employee submits his return by showing TAN No. of employer, even without attaching any Form-16 and attaches some Explanatory Note on a sheet of paper or copies of his salary slips, that can also not go unnoticed by the IT department to make them alert about the default of the employer?
Still further, I hope, you would also like to agree that in the organisation there cannot be a single instance of IT becoming due and recovered merely from the querist only. There must also be several other executives/ employees from whom TDS would have been recovered and the employer would be submitting online form 26AS for all others. On not able to link the recovery with reference to the IT return of the employee, would not the AO become alert that there is some misappropriation of Government revenue on the part of the employer?
The question is not merely getting refund or response from the AO, if the tax payer makes a complaint to the AO about irregularity on the part of the employer about misappropriation of the Govt. revenue, his complaint cannot remain unnoticed forever. The process of recovery of the outstanding revenue, vis-a-vis the IT return of the employee, itself, would lead to indicate about excess recovery of TDS, if there is any, from the employee.
So, there are always numourous different solutions to a problem. You would therefore like to appreciate that there cannot be a scope of negative response, like, "No Option Employee Have," OR "nothing will work to claim TDS refund as suggested by experts".
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 14 March 2013
Hope you would like to agree that as and when the employer deposits the amount, the employee would become eligible for refund?
- Not agree. now provision changed, you have to check 26AS else no refund.
check this
http://incometaxindia.gov.in/26ASTaxCreditStatement.asp
I further hope, you would also like to agree that if the employee is able to get Form-16 and attaches that with his return, that cannot go unnoticed by the IT department, if there is no deposit by the employer?
- not agreed, no need to attach now a days earlier it was.
Still further, I hope, you would also agree that if the employee submits his return by showing TAN No. of employer, even without attaching any Form-16 and attaches some Explanatory Note on a sheet of paper or copies of his salary slips, that can also not go unnoticed by the IT department to make them alert about the default of the employer?
- no attachment required now a a days...provision has been changed.
simpally you wont get refund.
Still further, I hope, you would also like to agree that in the organisation there cannot be a single instance of IT becoming due and recovered merely from the querist only. There must also be several other executives/ employees from whom TDS would have been recovered and the employer would be submitting online form 26AS for all others. On not able to link the recovery with reference to the IT return of the employee, would not the AO become alert that there is some misappropriation of Government revenue on the part of the employer?
- yes accepted. i already said, employer have to pay one day.
because income tax department will never ever leave that money.
The question is not merely getting refund or response from the AO, if the tax payer makes a complaint to the AO about irregularity on the part of the employer about misappropriation of the Govt. revenue, his complaint cannot remain unnoticed forever. The process of recovery of the outstanding revenue, vis-a-vis the IT return of the employee, itself, would lead to indicate about excess recovery of TDS, if there is any, from the employee.
- yes that option is available to employee
So, there are always numourous different solutions to a problem. You would therefore like to appreciate that there cannot be a scope of negative response, like, "No Option Employee Have," OR "nothing will work to claim TDS refund as suggested by experts".
- agreed, always there is a solution, i am sorry i have forwarded negative comment, but fact is this only.
you just can approach employer or request letter to AO.
one day you will get result.
generally every employer pays TDS whatever deducted.
Guest
(Expert) 16 March 2013
Dear Agrawal,
Thanks for the info and your partial disagreement with my views on certain points.
I do not know how much experience you have attained after clearing your CA Final and whether you are doing independent practice or employed in any company or CA Firm. But, I feel that a CA should be a perfect solution provider for a layman.
You may however like to review your quoted reasons of disagreement and clarify on the following points:
1) About your statement, "now provision changed, you have to check 26AS ELSE NO REFUND", I have checked the link provided by you. But, I don't find anything that restricts refund if the statement of credit is not checked by the tax-payer. Can you refer any specific order of the IT Department, which bans refund of excess paid tax, if statement 26AS is not checked online?
2) About your statement, "no need to attach now a days earlier it was", do you think that the term "no need to attach" have the same meaning as that of the term "debarred or restricted to attach"?
3) About your statement, "no attachment REQUIRED now a a days...provision has been changed, SIMPALLY YOU WONT GET REFUND," do you think "no requirement" intends to put a clear restriction or dispensing with attachment of some document on the part of the tax-payer?
4) Further, as and when the employer deposits the TDS amount, cannot that be expected to appear in Tax Credit Statement 26AS or does the system of the IT department rejects such credit of tax to be shown in 26AS?
In my views, simplification of tax-payment and return filing system does not aim to put restrictions, rather provides for facilities for the tax-payer to reduce complexity of the return-filing system and does not put any restriction on the tax-payer to use his option to attach any document containg some additional information for the use of the department.
Anyway, I hope you would like to enlighten me about the specific conditions under which the refund of excess deposited tax can be refused to be made by the IT Department.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 16 March 2013
Dear Dhingra Sir,
I respect Your Experience, Afterall Experience Matters a Lot.
The Annual Tax Statement under section 203AA in From No. 26AS contains ‘Details of Tax Deducted At Source’ in Part A, ‘Details of Tax Collected At Source’ in Part B and ‘Details of Tax Paid (Other than TDS and TCS)’ in Part C basing on the data available with the department through OLTAS (On Line Tax Accounting System).
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 16 March 2013
Regarding The Provisions, There is No Such Specific Notification for 26AS Credit Only.
But I can Share One Importnat Article Written by CA Raja Babu.
For the first time perhaps the Central Board of Direct Taxes has chosen to consciously undermine a hoary law still extant, the one Parliament has chosen not to repeal. The tax administration has been exhorting taxpayers not to set store by the TDS certificates they receive, but by what appears in the Tax Information Network (TIN) as tax credit available to them by way of advance tax, tax collected at source and deducted at source.
What this meant was no matter what the TDS certificates said, the TIN information would be held as final and sacrosanct. And more galling would be a situation where a taxpayer has paid an instalment of advance tax, but can't claim credit for the same because the bank with which the amount has been deposited has goofed up.
TIN information is compiled out of what the banks with which tax deducted at source is deposited upload into the system and TDS certificates are issued by employers and others obliged to deduct tax at source.
The peremptory message is in case of discrepancy between the two, the former would prevail. This was the first step in dethroning of TDS certificates through an administrative fiat without the backing of the Parliamentary approval.
Going a step further, the tax administration now has exhorted the tax deductors not to issue Form 16/16A on the basis of their own accounting information, but on the basis of the TIN information. And this time round, the peremptory order is being flashed by the ticker in red appearing on its Web site. While the ticker might be construed as a belated attempt to forestall and pre-empt the discrepancy between TIN and TDS certificates by aligning the two peremptorily, the bottom-line is effective marginalisation nay annihilation of the true worth of TDS certificates.
The solution worked out by the CBDT to the problem of discrepancy inevitable in a dual system is ham-handed, to say the least. For, the Income-tax Act, 1961 still says that income-tax returns have to be filed on the basis of TDS certificates. Thus if a person has got in his possession TDS certificates obtained from various companies aggregating to Rs 25,000 whereas the TIN shows only Rs 20,000 to his credit, he can claim credit in his income-tax return only for Rs 20,000. . How can he be expected to bear the resultant interest liability for short payment of tax? And In the first place, how can the department place a burden on him for payment of Rs 5,000 when nothing is due from him and the fault is that of the system. The ham-handed solution being attempted is to ask these companies to look up the TIN, and not their own records before issuing the TDS certificates.
This begs the question - why go through the farce of TDS certificates when TIN is in any case going to overrule them.
The plausible explanation is the seeming respect for the mandate of Parliament that TDS certificates still rule the roost. The farce, confusion and contradiction are all going to be heightened when the Department goes ahead with its proposal evinced in its answer to a FAQ that soon it will start sending individual intimations of tax deducted at source to taxpayers from out of the information available in TIN.
Should this happen they would have two sets of documents in their hands - TDS certificates and the consolidated statement 26AS emanating out of TIN. The Department would like the taxpayers to junk the former if they do not reflect faithfully what has been stated in the statement of tax deducted i.e. 26AS. The ticker seeks to nip this possibility in the bud by calling upon tax deductors to set store by TIN, and not by their own records while issuing the certificates. Shouldn't Parliament step in and assert itself? Does it want to give the quietus to the TDS certificates regime?
A dual regime is always confusing and calls for needless reconciliation. Hence, a single unified regime is desirable. But the mandate for this has to come from the Parliament. While migrating to this regime it must be ensured that taxpayers are not put to trouble which is likely to happen should derelict tax deductors either sit on the tax deducted or are remiss in depositing them on time. Taxpayers should not be made to bear the cross for the shenanigans of the tax deductors or the inefficiency of the banking system or the TIN.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 16 March 2013
In Case of TDS Certificate Not Match With 26AS Then One Can:
Whom can the PAN holder contact in case of any clarifications which have not been resolved by the deductor of the bank?
PAN holder can contact TIN Call Centre National Securities Depository Limited 3rd Floor Sapphire Chambers near Baner Telephone Exchange Baner Pune 411 045. Tel: 020 2721 8080.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 16 March 2013
and Regarding Attachment, Yes Not Required.
Required Only in case of Ask by AO.
Guest
(Expert) 16 March 2013
Dear Agarwal,
Your posts/ article do not provide specific replies to my specific queries. The word "not required" does not construe to be a blanket ban on any attachment. The AO can ignore attachment, but cannot reject the return.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 16 March 2013
Dear Sir,
Its Time of E Filling.
Very Less People File Manual.and in E Filling, There is No Space to Attachment.
and as far as manula return is concerned, they wont take attachment such as bs/pl/computation and form 16 etc.
they directly return to you. and only accept ITR forms.
Guest
(Expert) 16 March 2013
1) Any statistics of e-filing vs. manual returns?
2) Any authentic information with weblink of the IT department about non acceptance of ITR, if any attachment is there? There is always a difference in practice and procedure.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 18 March 2013
Mr. Dhingra,
Pls See Link for Growth in E Filling Statistics.
http://www.caclubindia.com/news/e-filing-in-f-y-2011-12-quick-statistics-as-on-31st-march-2012--11367.asp#.UUaeMhf-GxA
I am Talking Practically Only, Now They are Not Taking Any Attachment in Manual Return Generally.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 18 March 2013
Mr. Dhingra,
Pls Refer These Links For Your Knowledge Updation.
Read Carefully.
http://www.eicbma.com/circulars/revised-CBDT-TDS-credit-AY2011.pdf
http://taxguru.in/income-tax/problems-in-credit-for-tds-form-no-26as.html
http://jcs-etds.com/blog/?p=462
These All Links After reading You May Realise That TDS Credit Not allowed by CBDT if not showing in 26AS.
Though there are so many if and but..
practicality is what i am saying.
Guest
(Querist) 18 March 2013
It is really unjustified that there is no punishment to the employer for excess deduction of TDS.One of my previous employers made excess deduction of TDS against my pay amounting to Rs.67,000.00 during the previous year 2010-11 and till date I could not get the refund inspite of lodging complaints upto the level of CBDT.
I am of the view that Govt. should incorporate a provision to protect the innocent employees for above type of cases and punish the irresponsible employers.There is no justifications for making such substantial wrongful deductions.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 18 March 2013
CBDT have Only One Reply for That:-
Claim Excess TDS Deducted as Refund.
But What About if Not Shown in 26AS. ?
'
Then They Will not Give Refund ..
Its Not a Justification for TDS Deductee.
Guest
(Querist) 18 March 2013
Yes,in my case ,TDS was deposied by the employer and IT Return was acknowledged by the ITO.Employer has stated in the TDS certificate given to me that they have made an excess deduction of Rs.67,948.00 but even then till date I have not received the refund.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 18 March 2013
dear sir,
i suggest you to engage any practising CA, some CA help you to get refund of your excess TDS.
Guest
(Expert) 18 March 2013
Dear Arawal,
Thanks for the info. But, the link [http://www.caclubindia.com/news/e-filing-in-f-y-2011-12-quick-statistics-as-on-31st-march-2012--11367.asp#.UUaeMhf-GxA] in your first post of today does not provide comparison between manual and the efiling cases. It gives statistics only for the No. of registrants for e-filing and the actual No. of payers who used e-filing during 2011-12, BUT not the persons filing manual returns.
Your link [http://www.eicbma.com/circulars/revised-CBDT-TDS-credit-AY2011.pdf] does not anywhere indicates that payment of TDS, if made late by the employer, would not appear in AS26 and also that no claim would be entertained, if difference in AS26 on credit appears.
As regards your subsequent link [http://taxguru.in/income-tax/problems-in-credit-for-tds-form-no-26as.html], probably, you have not noticed the following sentence in the said article, which clearly states that the belated payments have to appear in 26AS.
"As of now if an assessee fails to deduct tax or deducts tax at a lesser rate or pay the deducted tax belatedly with interest he can file revised ETDS returns with correct figures and these belated payments have to appear in the Form 26AS."
So, once deposit is made, may be belated, that has to appear in 26AS, may be for the next year. As a CA, you would like to agree that no credit should remain unaccounted in the books of Government, may be a belated credit.
As regards your another link [http://jcs-etds.com/blog/?p=462], although this is a blog site, but still, it seems you have conveniently ignored the following statement appearing below the heading "Ways to Get TDS reflected in 26AS statement" on the site:
"As for the assessment year 2011-12, CBDT HAS ALREADY RELAXED the condition by issue of CBDT instruction no 2/2012 for allowing TDS credit while processing the income tax return for assessment year 2011-12 which are not reflected in 26AS statement under certain conditions."
Dear Agrawal, it is good to discuss anything for enhancement of knowledge, but it is not good to read between the lines to prove any point unduly, as that gets a man astray from the focal point.
For your kind information, out of total number of 35 millions taxpayers in India, only 16.4 millions use e-filing facilty as per your own data, which works out to less than 50% (46.85%). Rest of the 53.15% still use manual filing of returns. Even out of 19.68 millions of e-filing registrants e-filing, only 16.43 millions used e-filing facility during the F.Y. 2011-12.
I think we should not overlook the reality.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Nothing I Have Ignored...
Though I Have Not Forwarded You Direct Link to Support My Answer..
But These Links provided by me is Sufficient to Understand Professionals for which I am Talking is....
and See the growth here of Electronic Filling:-
http://www.caparivaar.com/e-filing-income-tax-return-fy-2011-12-quick-statistics.html
Thanks...
Guest
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Dear Ayush,
It is not the question of supporting or not supporting the views of anyone, but a question of logic and legality of an issue.
You are stressing merely on efiling, but the followings aspects of the issue remain untouched:
1) Whether physical filing of return by tax-payer is banned?
2) Whether the employee's claim of excess deducted TDS is disallowed by law if the TDS amount is not deposited in time by the employer and does not appear in the 26AS of the relevant year and appears later on deposit by the employer?
3) Whether the amount deposited later by the employer is rejected by the software to appear in the 26AS subsequently
4) Whether employer can get scot free legally if he does not deposit tax amount deducted at source and the Income Tax laws allows him to swindle away the hard earnings of the employees in the name of TDS?
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 02 April 2013
1) Whether physical filing of return by tax-payer is banned?
- No, But Almost Covered Most of The Assessee to File E Return Except Having Income Less Than 10 Lacs.
2) Whether the employee's claim of excess deducted TDS is disallowed by law if the TDS amount is not deposited in time by the employer and does not appear in the 26AS of the relevant year and appears later on deposit by the employer?
- If I Speak Practicability, Then Suppose Employee File Return and Upto Assessment u/s 143(1) if Employer Not Deposited TDS Amount Then No refund Allowed.
Even IT Dept Force to Check With 26AS Always while Filling IT return.
3) Whether the amount deposited later by the employer is rejected by the software to appear in the 26AS subsequently
- No, But What the use of showing if your assessment already have been complted, or you have already filed IT return.
4) Whether employer can get scot free legally if he does not deposit tax amount deducted at source and the Income Tax laws allows him to swindle away the hard earnings of the employees in the name of TDS?
- No, IT dept wont leave employer, but that is employer and department issue...
but in that what about employee.
what matter is employee TDS credit, that he have not got.
It Seem You Just speaking by using your logic only, but whatever i have written is fact.
IT dept do the same what i wrote.
(i.e. They Won't Give you TDS Credit untill and unless it show in 26AS)
In last 4-5 Years, How Many Times Have You Appeared Before the ITO for the same reason ?
Pls Let me Know ?
Guest
(Querist) 02 April 2013
I fully agree with the comments of Mr.Ayush Agrawal.
Guest
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Dear Ayush,
If you feel that I am speaking by using my logic only, it was open for you to refute my so called logic by quoting specific legal provision in your reply to the sentence "and APPEARS LATER on deposit by the employer" that I used in point-2. Probably, you ignored that specific part of sentence in a hurry to justify yourself.
Rather, by use of the words, "If I SPEAK PRACTICALLY," it clearly denotes that instead of taking cue from any legal provision your reply is based on the basis on your own presumption which you might be pracising yourself or seeing others to do.
Probably, you forget that your own reply, "They Won't Give you TDS Credit UNTIL and UNLESS IT SHOW in 26AS," clearly contradicts your own reply against point-2 and denotes that when that appears in 26AS the claim for refund becomes due. of course the assessee cannot get refund without any proof of excess deduction of TDS without deposit being made by the DDO, but when that appears in 26AS claim for refund cannot be forefeited.
When you have stated "NO" to points 1, 2, & 3, irrespective of the fact that you agree to my point (rather logic, as per your own statement), but use of "BUTs" clearly speaks of your mind that I can well understand. But, I really wonder on your statement, "but that is employer and department issue... but in that what about employee. what matter is employee TDS credit, that he have not got", as if the employee has no concern with the matter when his refund is at stake due to callousness of his employer.
About your last sentence how many times I have appeared before the ITO, I wonder, if you really has the right to ask for my movement diary. That is another thing if you are unable to convince any ITO with your views for justified refunds even on appearing before him. However, I would be obliged to you, if you point out towards any circular of the IT Department that empowersan ITO to refuse a justified refund of excess deduction of TDS if that appears in 26AS even later than the assessment year.
Guest
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Mr. Maitra,
That is fine, if you fully agree with the comments of Mr. Ayush Agrawal. Since you agree with his comments, you are also welcome to reply my query in the last post in support of Shri Agrawal, so that I may be able to learn something from you also. To be frank, I am least convinced with the comments of Mr. Ayush Agrawal.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Mr. Dhingra,
I am Saying That No where You find any circular regarding the same, or any kind of notification issued by IT dept for the same.
that show you are just going on what laws says and using logics only.
i am here discussing here practicability, in practical, dept wont give you any credit untill and unless it show in 26AS.
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 02 April 2013
You Have Written "when that appears in 26AS claim for refund cannot be forefeited."....
Take One Example:-
Suppose For Year 2011-12, Assessee Filed belated Return on 15th august 2012.since it was not shown in 26AS TDS credit, he have not taken TDS credit..
Now The Deductor Not yet made any payment, and made payment at time of tax audit i.e. 30th sept 2012.
even employee return has been processed u/s 143(1), now should he file return again to claim TDS credit ???
or intimate privately to AO to get TDS credit ???
CA Ayush Agrawal
(Expert) 02 April 2013
And Atlast Mr. Dhingra, I am neither a Judge nor Authority That You are debating and arguing with me...
I Wrote What The Practical Issues are There at time of taking TDS credit. (that i faced during assessments of my clients).
so hence forth i dont want any comments.
what you want from me, i already said, i am not a judge, that if you win here then you will get TDS credit ??? is it ??
so pls prove yourself in front of department....not before me....
I am not going to write here again and again the same.
and Yeah I dont have any right to ask any thing to you (in front of your experience)...
Now Pls Thanks.
Regards,
Guest
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Dear Ayush,
Your present reply does not provide any answer to my query of latest post. Practice does not mean that law should essentially support, if that is against the law or even logic. However, if you believe that your practice is supported by law, I have already asked you to point out towards any circular of the IT Department that empowers an ITO to refuse a justified refund of excess deduction of TDS if that appears in 26AS even later than the assessment year. But, that is missing in your reply.
You forget that you have again used the sentence, "untill and unless it show in 26AS." Naturally, the word "until" goes against the negative practice, if adopted by anyone. If you try to see the meaning of "until" you will find the answer yourself whether practice is fair or law is fair.
prabhakar singh
(Expert) 02 April 2013
Mr. Maitra!
It is I .T . Department where not law but liaison is in practice.
