Live with a girl/mistress - legal mutual consent document for hotel and avoid police trouble?
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
This query is : Resolved
In case two consenting adults agree to live together without getting married as live-in-partner/mistress, can a mutual consent legal document be prepared for travel, avoid police harassment and other address proof needs? The case is related to wife not accepting divorce, husband not ready to file for divorce as it is mentally taxing, and wife accepting (not explicitly) to live live as it is.
Adv.R.P.Chugh
(Expert) 16 June 2012
1. That would not be an offence for the husband as well the woman (not the wife) involved. However if that woman is also married - then this man may face adultery charges.
2. The wife can seek divorce on grounds of adultery.
3. Husband's petition for divorce may get thwarted because of own wrong.
4. Make it as clandestine as possible.
5. Get on with you life - for the judicial proceedings may take years.
6. With offcourse adequate safeguards and precautions.
R.K Nanda
(Expert) 16 June 2012
You are asking legal solutions for illegal
things.BRAVO.
Guest
(Expert) 16 June 2012
No penal liability would accrue as the woman is unmarried, irrespective of whether it is clandestine or not. Even in the scenario of a man living with the wife of another woman, a conviction cannot be mounted merely because they are living together.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
I do not understand why people not answer exactly. In previousserioes, I have learnt exactly what is what in this game.
I am asking an explicit question:
Court has protected right of the mistress.
That means it recognizes it. So, once that is a reality and no one complains.. can we a have a legal document protecting the mistress when she lives or travel with me?
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
3. Husband's petition for divorce may get thwarted because of own wrong.
4. Make it as clandestine as possible.
5. Get on with you life - for the judicial proceedings may take years.
You Point 3 is answered by 5. After 20 years of marriage, divorce applicaton by man would take years and by women, it is fast.
Why clandestine? After you have given enough time to you wife to rectify and she doesnot, nor undertake counselling...
SAINATH DEVALLA
(Expert) 16 June 2012
Dear Gentleman,
You have been constantly using the word mistress.Till you are divorced,she remains a mistress with no legal credibiity of a wife.This may further hamper your cause.Hence think twice before you leap.
Shonee Kapoor
(Expert) 16 June 2012
Agreed, this kind of agreement would be against public policy.
Regards,
Shonee Kapoor
harassed.by.498a@gmail.com
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
What is legal credibility of wife that cannot be awarded to a mistress as a contract employee relationship? Only thing is that the benefits that come automatically has to be awarded by other means.. But still you have not answered my question:
This is specially true as many hotels refuses.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
"this kind of agreement would be against public policy"
What exactly happens when two consenting adults do not marry and live in relationship?
How do they travel?
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
"You are asking legal solutions for illegal"
Mistress is not illegal in India, as long as wife do not object, and even then the punishment is divorce and higher alimony,
and shorter legal battle cost. Even Prostitution or paid sex is not illegal in
India.
If indeed it was illegal, why did the court prohibit but protect the Mistress?
SAINATH DEVALLA
(Expert) 16 June 2012
Dear Querist,
Better go through law books to ascertain it for your self.
Devajyoti Barman
(Expert) 16 June 2012
Staying with a mistress in presence of a wife is something not supported by law.
We could not advise on something which the law does not permit.
ajay sethi
(Expert) 16 June 2012
why enter into any such explicit agreement with your mistress? it would be inviting trouble .
if your wife gets her hands on said document she may se you for adultery . you say your wife dosent want divorce but once she comes to know of your agreement she can make your life miserable .
similarly your live in partner can always on basi of said agreeement mention that you have had a live in relation ship and ask for mintenance under DV act .
you may subseqnely desire to break your relations with your mistress but she may want to cling to you . you may land in legal mess .
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
Staying with a mistress in presence of a wife is something not supported by law.
Sure: when Mistress asked for her rights, Madras court granted her rights and didnot ask them to separate.
Illegal : difficult to understand the definition.
When man asks for divorce after 20 years of marriage, law makes it difficult reverse is easy.
The punishment for this crime is divorce, this is what the man asks, and wife denies.
And what if wife does not file for divorce or any case, is there any case of illegality in front of the law?
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
'Better go through law books to ascertain it for your self."
Surely I will.. Don't mind,and when I know the answer, i will surely tell you.
can't answer a simple legitimate question?
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
"why enter into any such explicit agreement with your mistress? it would be inviting trouble ."
what trouble : either 498a or civil case of divorce.. Great..
"if your wife gets her hands on said document she may se you for adultery . "
Before entering into the relationship I will inform court and wife officially.
"you say your wife dosent want divorce but once she comes to know of your agreement she can make your life miserable ."
How accept 498a? No problem, I am living a life worse then jail now. It will be my life's liberty.
"similarly your live in partner can always on basi of said agreeement mention that you have had a live in relation ship and ask for mintenance under DV act . "
That is exactly what I will grant to the live-in-partner, make it explicitly clear what monitory condition she can expect and sign it legally. Like I am a goverment job, she will not be able to stay in Gov apartment where my wife will stay nor get medical or pension benefits, I will give them by other ways.. who know she may not need it.
I very well know that I need to take care of my legal wife, so i will regularly visit my Gov apprntment and make sure my wife's material needs are meet .. so no case there too.
you may subseqnely desire to break your relations with your mistress but she may want to cling to you . you may land in legal mess .
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
"you may subseqnely desire to break your relations with your mistress but she may want to cling to you . you may land in legal mess ."
That is my biggest fear. I will be very careful in my life and look for some one with whom I have mental compatibility so that my desire to separate may never come, She will have all status including introduction even to my friends and relatives and social gatherings.. she cannot be my wife because my wife won't grant divorce and law is not kind to man asking for divorce
ajay sethi
(Expert) 16 June 2012
we have given our opinion . it is your call .
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
Law some time do not allow some extension of house, and punishment is a small penalty. Though illegal, it becomes legal after paying small penalty..
That is the definition of legality and it is not about morality.. and even morality has two face.. unfortunately today law is on the other side.. I won't say law, but common perception about law..
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 16 June 2012
"we have given our opinion . it is your call ."
You has given opinion on topic not asked for. In fact none of you ever answered my question.. Thanks.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 16 June 2012
Sup:
Ask for legal problems :
Laws are man made, and can never be perfect.
Laws are twisted, misunderstood, mismanaged, Politicians want vote bank:
50% ladies are pampered with woman oriented laws
balance vote bank created by caste system, lots of reservations even after 60 years of Liberty,
American Jury systems are incorruptibly, fast & effective.
Lots of Personal Laws , different for Indian citizen. , just to pamper minority vote bank??
In India, can do whatever, and get away with it by bribe, & Punished if you can't pay !!
What is your problem?? Ask st forward:
If u both declare as h-w in hotel, which sec of IPC will be attracted to punish u?? who will prove with what evidence? who all are interested?
And when you know, you r taking calculated risks, gaining something at the cost of it,
And your conscious does not bite you to do so,
You are obeying God made natural laws., and that is far more important than to obey Indian Laws.
Man made laws can never be just& proper.
Lots of factors involved in deviating such laws from natural justice. And administration of Laws, Police, Advocates, Witnesses, procedures, their corrupt, selfish, greedy approach deviate justice towards one thing
" The victim only is punished"
My dear Sup, if you feel you r right, pl do it
Let Courts and Law decide later on, whatever they want to do, and whether they garland you or punish you. At least you will be self respected, satisfied and cheerful; And at no one's cost:
Certainly not at the cost of those who want to take undue advantage of LAWS.
But please, be with GOD, and he will carry you, when you cannot walk on Legal Roadways.
Bye.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
"But please, be with GOD, and he will carry you, when you cannot walk on Legal Roadways. "
Being an agnostic.. Well, let me go by the essence of it: Yes, i feel i am right and if i believed God, i can stand in front of God with head high and able to defend myself.
a) I am at present suffering (as much as my wife) living together.
b) Son stays in hostel, now in vacation, i am going to a trip today in 3 hours, my wife/his mother is not accompanying us. No one knows why. Possibly some astrologer said some thing. I have purchased her ticket hoping she will join in last moment. Today she was crying while doing Puja, yet she won't buckle.. She is aware of this trip from months. She tells us to cancel this and postpone this to winter vacation. is it time buying technique of Indian legal system? Of is it astrological concern. Our life is stagnant since June last year. i do not wish to wait this long. And when son is in hostel, and I am at home, she gives me food, we rarely even talk.. Life has become unbearable.
c) She will not agree to divorce with mutual consent, want my 100% property, me leave job and give my son to her and voluntarily not meet him till he is 18. Funny right? She thinks so because she was instrumental in making me decide to go for PhD degree. So according to her, without her I don't deserve the money and job I have.
d) I am undergoing counselling, she also did and stopped.
e) Our mental incompatibility is too high
f) I was suffocating, and I took control of my life, started taking all decision of my life.
g) In this forum, once one lady advised me: Start deciding your life, make yourself happy, and only happy people can make others happy, and when you are happy, if she still ignores you.. forget her.
i) I decided to teach poor children maths and science (I was Jee 326 in 1986) and expand my interaction circle. I love children. Without my son at home, i am suffering.
j) Till October, if she doesnot change, i will leave home and allow her enjoy my gov house. I will visit regularly to take care of her needs.
k) In March, if she still do not understand I need to move ahead.
l) I have realized Indian law is harsh to Male divorce case, hence I will not file divorce. i will allow her to file divorce. When it comes to alimony, I will ask the judge to decide hearing her and reading my need and reality, i will not contest. this will make legal battle shorter..
--- case closed of past , my question was not about this -----
I am starting to imagine future.
I want to be fare to some one who comes to my life:
a) Assume she takes care of my son like mother.
b) Understand that legally she cannot be my wife
Now: can we create a mutual agreed contract signed by court, which we can carry so that hotels, police and other do not harass us and allow us to live in peace?
==============
My uncle fought a case against Railways in Supreme Court. his no was always in last and always postponed for next date. The lawyers representing us would not protest. case dragged for 2 years, very expensive, no receipts, at the last day, the judgement was awarded without much hearing for us. i asked what about asking Gov to pay the expenses.. The lawyers decline to do it.. Once i put my hands up and protested, telling the judge that my uncle is 70 years old coming from calcutta and deserve some kindness.. The Judge threatened to punish me for insulting the court or worse give next date after 6 months.. This was said on the chair.. This is why they do not allow any gadgets in court I guess.
PARDEEP KUMAR
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Dear Supa,
Gone through all your write ups above, Advice of Adv. Bharat Chugh and comments of Mr. Nanda were sufficient for your questions. But in order to have something coming in your favor you are raising irrelevant arguments, as if your illegal acts are to be called in order by learned Experts of this Forum. Remember we are not competent to adjudicate, but just to advice. That too free of cost, this forum is meant to help genuine people in distress and not for covering illegal acts committed.
SAINATH DEVALLA
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Dear gentlemen of the forum,
There will be no end to this irresponsiblle thread as the querist is adamant in nature to keep on extending the arguments.The experts have given a correct definition of the word mistress.Hence study of law by the querist can only solve his self made problem.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
Keeping mistress and prostitution is absolutely legal, though there is penalty, I understand it is against your feeling.
But indeed I am suffering.
And you are unable to withstand my question. And remember me.. You will hear me, I am a real example.
And that day I will come and ask you, was I in my legal limits?
The question was on right of mistress: not on my act.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
The Bench also held that diversion of funds, meant for legally married wife, towards the live-in relationship partner for her protection was not unconstitutional and invalid.
"In unfortunate and uncomfortable situations like these, if the protection given to unwedded women results in the diminution of funds available for maintenance of the legally wedded wives and the legitimate children, such diminution would not render the statute unconstitutional," the Bench said.
This shows how correctly the court recognises
a) Keeping Mistress is not illegal
b) Spending money on her and the family is not illigal
c) Have to take care of original wie and family
d) Mistress will not be legally wife and get benifits that a legal wife gets..
So the question is, if law defends her rights, why not have predetermined contract legally recognized so that woman can read the contract and feel safe to get into it?
It is vaccination vrs medicine
Guest
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Dear Mr. Supabcdefgh,
In fact I did not like to reply your question, but your extending of the discussion in to a type of debate, compelled me to come forward with my reply. Before reply to your queries, I must say, you being a teacher by profession was expected to be sensible and wise enough to realise that you have come here with a request to solve your queries and not as a teacher to teach your students by considering this community as a community of students upon whom a teacher could impose his directions.
SO, IF YOU WERE NOT SATISFIED WITH THE REPLY OF ANYONE, you could have exercised some restraint rather than making the issue as a debatable issue or a declamation contest. You could well have taken yp with the experts in person through private message to vent your difference with him, whose advice you could not relish. YOU WERE QUITE FREE TO ADHERE OR IGNORE THE ADVICE OR OPINION OF ANY OF THE EXPERTS.
NOW COMING TO YOUR QUESTION, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER YOU AGREE OR NOT, MY VIEWS ARE AS UNDER:
Q.1) In case two consenting adults agree to live together without getting married as live-in-partner/mistress, can a mutual consent legal document be prepared for travel;
ANS. No legal document can be prepared. Mutual consent cannot be binding forever. That is application till both of you can live in harmony. As a teacher, you very well know "Manushya ka man chanchal hai" and can change any time. FOR TRAVEL, only individual travel documents can be prepared without showing any relation between the two. That is different thing, both of you can travel on the same flight together, but in individual capacity only.
Q.2) Avoid police harassment and other address proof needs?
ANS. Police harassment cannot be avoided when the police gets any doubt about your illicit relationship or complained against you or your mistress, by any of the relatives of both of you.
Q.3) The case is related to wife not accepting divorce, husband not ready to file for divorce as it is mentally taxing, and wife accepting (not explicitly) to live as it is.
ANS. That is your personal problem. No law or court can enforce divorce unless specifically applied for and decree obtained from court of law. No wife can tolerate that his husband should have any illicit relations with any other woman.
HOPE YOU CAN AGREE TO MY VIEWS, IF ANY OF THE ABOVE DOES NOT IRRITATE YOU.
Guest
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Sufficient response has already been elicited to the querist. The experts should, in my humble opinion, desist from responding further to this thread. The querist has the option of contacting a local lawyer for any further queries which might crop up in his mind.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
First I will thank PS Dhinga ji, for patiently answering me , even though I disagree with him.
But he has given me a small massage which I understood... How ever big truth you are representing.. you are up against a big wall... Keep quiet and act.. being a teacher, I must have the minimum intelligence that no one here can see the cry for justice , because ...
Remember the time frames sir.. you will hear from me ..
October 2012 and march 2013 and may be next June 2013.
R.RAJENDRAN
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Is mutual consent legal document prescribed in law?
When such document is not prescribed legally by the law makers, how can any sane person insist on such document to suit his actions? My suggestion is that before doing anything with your partner each and every time, by way of safety reduce the mutual consent in to writing and get it signed by your partner. Then you can embark upon any action happily.
Guest
(Expert) 17 June 2012
Dear Supaabcdefgh,
I have already made clear that you are free to differ with any one's opinion. So, you were quite free to differ with my views. I stated position with reference to the Indian law, not that of the Western Laws, e.g., US, UK, or France, etc., where the position is quite different. If you go to Middle East you can see more stringent laws so far as the other lady vs. the wife is concerned.
However, in response to your present post, I must say, assumed justice sans ethics can never be a justice. Justice and ethics both work side by side unless law is distorted by corrupt practices.
Your last resort, divorce with your wife is the only remedy for you.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
dear Mr, Dhingra ji,
I am touched by your kindness. but I know my wife for 10 years before marriage and now 20 years after it.
I don't know how to change my wife. As I said, I have sent my heart (son) to hostel, and will take positive steps to create happiness, hope she will change.
If she doesnot change, I will leave home and wait another 6 months, but after that I can't wait.
For two reason: My happiness and my son's happiness.
But I can't ignore my wife, she will be safe in the government apartment. After divorce she may not survive. So, I can't force any relation on her, nor allow her to force on me.
So, if she is happy to stay in my Gov apartment and me staying out, so be it.
I was just imagining my life after that. I am not in a hurry, but if someone comes to my life, I wish to be truthful and give her the right that the Madras court wanted to give as the husband wanted to deny.
I will face life, however against the life it is. I will face Indian law with time, and with my heads high. Let me see how Indian law and system face me, the storm.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
"When such document is not prescribed legally by the law makers, how can any sane person insist on such document to suit his actions?"
Madras court has protected the right of Mistress without asking them to separate.
And reference to such a document does not exist, it is because:
a) Such a case did not arise ethically in a defend able way
b) People in India didnot have guts to face the truth, as is evident even here in this forum too, where except Mr. Dhingra, everyone is cursing me in place of recognizing my suffering.
c) Today same sex marriage is being talked about, yet legally live-in-relationship is a taboo and left to be solved when there is a problem (Madras court case)
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
"get it signed by your partner. "
You mean wife: I can't expect her to sign,
I have already explained to her what happens if does not change, and every stage I will keep her informed, and I will give her scope to come back to my life in every stage of life
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
"get it signed by your partner. "
You mean wife: I can't expect her to sign,
I have already explained to her what happens if does not change, and every stage I will keep her informed, and I will give her scope to come back to my life in every stage of life
Guest
(Expert) 17 June 2012
I can simply say, only your family members, particularly your son, and friends circle can help you to get patch up between you and your wife.
Guest
(Expert) 17 June 2012
I can simply say, only your family members, particularly your son, and friends circle can help you to get patch up between you and your wife.
Dr V. Nageswara Rao
(Expert) 17 June 2012
1. Your extramarital relationship with another woman is a ground for divorce by your wife on the ground of adultery.
2. As the woman you are living with is unmarried, you cannot be charged with the offence of adultery.
3 True, law recognizes live-in relationships, and long cohabitation between a man and woman can give rise to presumption of marriage. But that is done ONLY if both are unmarried. If one of them is married, long cohabitation cannot give rise to presumption of marriage as that will amount to recognition of bigamy which is an offence.
4. Under no circumstances you can get any legally protected status thorugh any document of mutual consent, so long as you are not divorced from your lawfully wedded wife.
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 17 June 2012
4. Under no circumstances you can get any legally protected status thorugh any document of mutual consent, so long as you are not divorced from your lawfully wedded wife.
Can you refer to the Madras Court case where court defended the right of the mistress, but not asking them to separate.. asking for divorce is not court prerogative..
Now if Court protected her right, why can't I declare that right openly on a judicial paper, rather then take a stand when that is violated?
And once Court cannot stop me from staying with a mistress and even in having baby, why should society disallow the man and mistress from travelling and staying in hotel? After all the man and mistress is a faithful relationship and man-wife relationship is long over, and divorce is not possible because wife do not want and law is not kind to man.
Note: I have not yet committed anything just studying law as I do not want to do a crime due to lack of knowledge.
V.Mahadevan
(Expert) 17 June 2012
In the instant case, the status of the parties as wife and husband, in the eyes of law, remains unaltered.
Live-in relationships are not frowned upon by courts though subject to judicial scrutiny in exceptional cases.
mahadevan
Dr V. Nageswara Rao
(Expert) 18 June 2012
Live-in relatrionships are not frowned upon by Courts and in fact recognized under Domestic Violence Act for violence etc and for maintenance provided they are not already married. It is against public policy and a ground for divorce on the ground of adultery if a married man or woman has live-in relationship.
V R SHROFF
(Expert) 18 June 2012
sup:: "where except Mr. Dhingra, everyone is cursing me in place of recognizing my suffering.""
---did I??---
supabcdefgh
(Querist) 18 June 2012
Mr. Shroff, I was reading your answer:
If two unmarried person walk into a hotel and declare themselves husband an wife:
a) What would happen if some one complains to police that these are not couple? Is there any legal punishment?
b) Hotels always ask address proof from man only. but once I shared a room with a friend, they asked both our ID proof,
what exactly is the rule?
